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View Diary: I'm sorry, Kos frontpagers, but the individual insurance Senate deal is crap... and you know it. (37 comments)

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  •  Very empty words (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    magnetics, Sunspots
    Once the Republican started their rhetoric about government take over of one fifth of the economy, many people who thought a public option was cool got scared away from it.
    So because Democrats instantly crumble from any kind of Republican rhetorical bullshit, that made the public option unworkable "in reality"? You're comparing Bush's proposals to privatize SS to the debate for single-payer? Seriously? Have you seen the polls for what people want to be done with SS? Hint: It's not privatizing it.

    How have we "changed the terms of the debate" when the primary goal of the ACA is to keep the health insurance companies in business? Wouldn't changing the debate be arguing for single-payer?

    You know, that thing that the Democrats just won't do?

    Banking on the American people to be able to sort all this out and declare the adult in the room the winner is a very big bet. -Digby

    by Boogalord on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 11:37:53 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Exactly my point. (0+ / 0-)

      When simply thrown around as policy discussion, it was more popular that when he actually put it on the table, particularly when there was an organized opposition - us - who were ready to pick holes in it. They never knew what hit them.

      Single payer is what we all want. But simply getting any sort of commitment was a struggle. The baseline in our country was to have no guarantee except to elderly and the very poor, and even the latter had been under heavy attack from the right. The Republicans opposed what we put on the table, even though it was originally a Republican proposal, proving there were never serious about any sort of health reform. Over their dead body would it be passed they told us. It has been passed, and they are still alive, somewhat.  And they have still have their bi-weekly attempts to repeal it.

      If it is such a reactionary plan, why have these reactionaries opposed it so vehemently? If they honestly believe the ACA is as attrocious as they say, why not let it be and let it fall apart on its own? Because the ACA, bu its very existence as I said, has changed the terms of the debate. So, what if it is not perfect? If the American people have a choice between scrapping it or coming up with a better plan, what do think that will be? The Republicans know that the next step will be a single payer plan. They are on defense for a change instead of us, and I like that.

      Just another underemployed IT professional computer geek.

      by RhodeIslandAspie on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 12:30:16 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  So the lesson is, we can never actually propose (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Shadowmuffin, Sunspots

        anything that's actually good, because then the Republicans will try to poke holes in it?

        Single payer is what we all want. But simply getting any sort of commitment was a struggle.
        Yeah, it was a struggle to get commitment from the D's. Yes, the R's would scream bloody murder. Yes, the Dems would have to vigorously defend their (tremendously popular) position in the face of strong opposition instead of instantly assuming the fetal position.
        Because the ACA, bu its very existence as I said, has changed the terms of the debate.
        I don't know what this is supposed to mean, and I definitely don't see how locking everyone into buying private insurance is the logical step to single-payer healthcare.

        The R's oppose the ACA because they hate Obama and everything he supposedly represents. Obviously. The only way the ACA has "changed the debate" is in calling out the worst of the insurance industry's practices while working very hard to preserve the private system as a whole.

        I don't see any Democrats arguing to single-payer.

        Banking on the American people to be able to sort all this out and declare the adult in the room the winner is a very big bet. -Digby

        by Boogalord on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 01:30:49 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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