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  •  Um... no... he exorcised demons from two men (7+ / 0-)

    so violent that everyone was afraid of them. The demons asked to be sent INTO the herd of swine, which then drown themselves, whereupon the terrified locals (now missing some livestock) asked Jesus to leave. Matthew 8:28-34.

    A brief overview of the treatment of "madness":
    http://laingsociety.org/...

    Not surprisingly, concepts, methods, and societal attitudes have varied widely across the centuries, and we're still not doing so well in treating severe psychoses.

    Fight them to the end, until the children of the poor eat better than the dogs of the rich.

    by raincrow on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 04:40:40 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Yes, you are right. Those poor pigs. What did (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Janet 707

      they do to deserve that???   Point being, the character of Jesus believed in demons and devils and the ability to remove them from people (but not pigs!) So when one criticizes the belief in demons and exocisms, one must also admit that the "savior" also participated in that very unscientific nonsense.

      •  There is VERY much "unscientific" about (0+ / 0-)

        psychotherapy to this day -- successful treatment of psychosis is still so iffy precisely because we don't entirely know what we're doing yet. But yes, your historical observations are correct: people of that day did not have Jung, the DSM, anti-psychotic medications, theories of brain activity, etc., and instead believed in demons, whether or not their ability to cure psychosis might have qualified as "nonsense." Shamans today continue to cast out what their culture calls demons and return ostensibly psychotic people to relatively normal social function. A cure is a cure is a cure no matter how it is brought about -- unless, that is, you worship form over function.

        Gentle suggestion: it is very often helpful not to take every passage in religious texts as literally true (again, unless you worship form over function).

        Fight them to the end, until the children of the poor eat better than the dogs of the rich.

        by raincrow on Sun Nov 17, 2013 at 08:15:35 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I don't "worship" anything. I'm an atheist. (0+ / 0-)

          Ok, so here we go again with which passages are "true" in the bible and which are not.  Perhaps we can say that if there are some that are true then all are true. If some are false then all are false. The in-between is a clown's fest of confusion and disagreement.  

          If you are going to say that the character of Jesus really did "save" mankind from his sins by going through the ritual of crucifixion and resurrection, then you have to also say that he performed an exorcism and believed in devils.  You can't have one without the other.

          Believing that shamanisitic rituals cure mental illnesses is no different than believing that crackers and wine become flesh and blood.  It's just unsubstantiated superstition.  Of course we don't know everything about the brain... YET.  But we do know that prayer does not affect the phycial universe or make changes in it, and neither do religious rituals of whatever the background.

          When a shaman or a catholic priest makes someone grow a new limb, let me know.

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