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View Diary: John Kennedy smiled at me. Five minutes later, he was dead. (176 comments)

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  •  Accidentally shot? Twice? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z, FarWestGirl, bronte17, Lefty Ladig

    Three accidental bullets (or was it four)?
    That's some accident you got there.

    •  Oswald got off two shots ... by the time (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Shockwave, The House

      of the second report, an agent stood (there is a picture) with a semi auto rifle ... and there is truly compelling evidence that the gun fired as he stood up. He was turning towards the sounds, he wasn't paying attention ... and a truly remarkable accident occurred.
      He was normally a driver, unfamiliar with the gun.
      There was the distinct smell of gunpowder on the street, which was a major bit of evidence of the shooter on the  knoll theory.
      The secret service went into complete ass covering mode from the second Kennedy arrived at the hospital.
      The fragments from the head shot were NOT from the same bullet as the neck shot and the Connelly shot.
      There is much more. This theory has been around for a long time but is just now getting the attention it deserves.

      •  One man's truly compelling evidence (3+ / 0-)

        is another man's CT. But knock yourself out, you won't be the first.

      •  The safety (0+ / 0-)

        According to testimony, the gun in the SS car would have been locked and loaded and would have only needed the safety off to fire. That was standard procedure for the follow car. The agent holding the gun in the photo testified that when he heard the first shot he grabbed it, stood up, locked and loaded it and raised it. Now, I don't know much about guns, but if he did anything to an already locked and loaded gun, want to bet he actually put the safety off, and thus it was ready to accidentally fire when the car lurched, which it did, as he fell over. The trajectory would have been possible. It would explain why many people near the car smelled gunsmoke.

        •  this is all nonsense (0+ / 0-)

          There is zero ballistic evidence that any gun other than Oswald's was fired.  There were no bullets or fragments anywhere from any M-16, and no ejected shell casing anywhere from a fired M-16. Nor has any witness anywhere, whether in the Secret Service car or any of the civilians standing nearby, ever said anything about seeing anyone anywhere in the motorcade ever firing a shot, nor did anyone anywhere ever report hearing a gunshot from street level. EVERYONE who testified said that they heard shots from above and behind--the Book Depository--and some witnesses testified that they heard a shot from the right front--the grassy knoll.  NOBODY heard a shot from the motorcade itself.

          In the end, reality always wins.

          by Lenny Flank on Mon Nov 18, 2013 at 05:00:49 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yes and many people smelled gunsmoke (0+ / 0-)

            And so testified.

            Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

            You really think the Secret Service would have admitted that one of its own fired that head shot? You think anyone in the the US government would have admitted that a Secret Service agent fired that head shot?

            You may think that, I don't.

            •  it doesn't matter a rat's patootie what the (0+ / 0-)

              Secret Service admits or not.  There is zero evidence, anywhere, that any gun other than Oswald's was fired.  None. No shell casings from another gun.  No bullets or fragments from another gun. No witness who saw anyone else anywhere fire any gun. Zip. Zero. Ziclh. Nada.

              You can wave your arms all you want--it doesn't change that simple reality.

              What you or I "think" simply doesn't matter.

              Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
              Yes it is.  (shrug)

              This is something the woo-woos can never grasp-----the fact that there is absolutely no evidence for something means there is absolutely no evidence of something. It does NOT mean that any speculation you like can therefore be substituted and we have to take it seriously in the face of no evidence whatsoever.

              There is zero evidence for a fleet of flying Bigfoots in orbit around Jupiter.  If you want to conclude therefore that the absence of evidence for flying Bigfoots in orbit around Jupiter does not mean there AREN'T really flying Bigfoots in orbit around Jupiter (because 'absense of evidence is not evidence of absence"), then that illustrates better than I ever could why the woo-woos simply aren't worth listening to.

              The entire concept of "evidence" is completely foreign to them. Like the creationists and all the other nutters, they have this silly idea that ideas are democratic, that everyone's ideas are equally valid, and we have to treat them all with the same respect.  No, we don't.  Most ideas are wrong. Period. And we don't have to give any respect at all to ideas that are wrong. How do we decide which ideas are wrong and which are not?  We use this stuff called "evidence"--that thing which you have NONE of.  (shrug)

              In the end, reality always wins.

              by Lenny Flank on Mon Nov 18, 2013 at 07:02:29 AM PST

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              •  Except the photo of the SS agent with the gun (0+ / 0-)

                in his hands at the time. And the odd testimony of bystanders about gunsmoke smell. And the fact that tests with the manlicher bullet do not show the explosive effect on a skull that the SS gun's bullets show.

                But hey, shrug away. Machs nix. You KNOW what happened. You told us so.

                After the sound of the shot that I'll give you was from Oswald, Kennedy was clearly hurt. Anyone bystanding would be ducking, or looking at JFK, not the SS car. As for missing casings, if they turn over a casing because it was in the SS car, they admit they shot him. Back to my previous argument.

                You never said whether they tested the SS gun for having been fired or not.

    •  NOVA on PBS just aired a very good forensic (4+ / 0-)

      reconstruction last week. With an in depth look at the Italian rife and the unique ammunition that went with it. Along with laser reconstruction of the whole area, computer simulations of the effects of the impacts and re-examining the x-rays and original evidence from the Archives. It's pretty convincing in support of Oswald being alone and capable. No examination of Ruby's contacts, just the forensics of the shooting itself.

      Pretty sure you can access NOVA and replay the episode online.

      Information is abundant, wisdom is scarce. ~The Druid.
      ~Ideals aren't goals, they're navigation aids.~

      by FarWestGirl on Sun Nov 17, 2013 at 03:14:51 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  obviously, NOVA works for the CIA (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        FarWestGirl, wader, grover, N in Seattle

        and is in on the plot.

        (snicker)

        In the end, reality always wins.

        by Lenny Flank on Sun Nov 17, 2013 at 05:07:02 PM PST

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      •  Looked to me as though the forensic anaysis (0+ / 0-)

        described in Mortal Error is the best so far. They show the action of the Italian rifle's bullets yawing upon exiting flesh and show the deformed "pristine" bullet, as well as the holes corresponding to the tumbling bullet. The smell of gun powder on the ground sited by, what, 11 witnesses? The apparently inaccurate account by the agent who picked up the ar-15 as to when he picked it up? And the myriad of unlikely deaths to people involved, starting with Oswald? People who are disturbed by things that are not wrapped up neat and tidy don;t want to have to think about it. But the Dulles brothers had been busy assassinating and deposing leaders the world over during the previous decade, and wanted nothing more than to get deep into Vietnam. This stank to high heaven from the start, and the idea of a lone, nut assassin is just the easy, simple solution people who don't like feeling frightened have been able to rely on for comfort these last 50 years.

        I sure hope that JFK can rest in peace, lord knows we've had precious little of it since the plotters killed him... IM (and some 60 to 70 percent of the public's) O.

        "Have a good time... all the time." -Viv Savage

        by The House on Sun Nov 17, 2013 at 05:58:59 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  so the Dulles brothers killed JFK . . . ? (0+ / 0-)

          No wonder nobody takes you seriously.

          In the end, reality always wins.

          by Lenny Flank on Sun Nov 17, 2013 at 06:21:46 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  If a person chooses to be an idiot, who (0+ / 0-)

            can help him?

            "Have a good time... all the time." -Viv Savage

            by The House on Sun Nov 17, 2013 at 06:25:15 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  a better answer would have been to present some (0+ / 0-)

              evidence for your silly claim.

              But you don't have any.  (shrug)

              Feel free to call me names as much as you want, iof you think it helps.  Just make sure to present your evidence somewhere in all the name-calling . . . .

              (sound of crickets chirping)

              Yeah, that's what I thought . . .

              In the end, reality always wins.

              by Lenny Flank on Sun Nov 17, 2013 at 06:35:07 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Read the book The Brothers by Stephen Kinzer. (0+ / 0-)

                And then watch Coverup: Behind the Iran Contra Affair. Our government has been murderous since at least the end of ww2. You can believe whatever you need to. But if you can put Kennedy's assassination beyond the wherewithal of the Military Industrial Complex then I think that you are very naive. They wanted it, and it happened.

                Communist, non-Communist; CIA followed; Russian agent, non-Russian agent, ex-Marine Oswald, calm as can be in the aftermath, denying he did it, lone "nut" gunman was solely responsible... missing the first, easiest shot, but then connecting better with each following rushed shot... right!

                And btw, you were the first one in with an insult, genius!

                "Have a good time... all the time." -Viv Savage

                by The House on Sun Nov 17, 2013 at 07:06:25 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

        •  The NOVA episode also showed the yaw in the (0+ / 0-)

          trajectory post emergence, as well as the trajectories and evidence from the clothing and described wounds. I was impressed.

          Information is abundant, wisdom is scarce. ~The Druid.
          ~Ideals aren't goals, they're navigation aids.~

          by FarWestGirl on Sun Nov 17, 2013 at 07:11:39 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  If the SS agent fired that gun (0+ / 0-)

          it could have been deliberate or accidental.
          I actually vote for accidental because it explains why they pushed so hard on Oswald as the "lone assassin" and why there seemed to me (who lived in DC at the time) to be no extra security on anything after the assassination. No one in the government seemed to be walking around worrying about more assassins.

          And why the records are still sealed.

          •  there was no gun fired (0+ / 0-)

            So your evidence-free speculations are pointless.

            In the end, reality always wins.

            by Lenny Flank on Mon Nov 18, 2013 at 05:01:35 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

              •  I know that because we have the bullets and (0+ / 0-)

                the fragments, that were recovered inside the limousine and inside JFK's head.

                You can go today to the National Archives and see those fragments for yourself.

                Those fragments were ballistically tested, and they match Oswald's rifle to the exclusion of every other firearm in the world.

                And three rifle casings were found at the scene (NONE were found either in the Secret Service car or in the street having been ejected from the Secret Service car). When those casings were ballistically tested, they also all were matched to Oswald's rifle to the exclusion of all other firearms on earth.

                See, that sort of thing is what we call "evidence".

                You of course can wave your arms and blither about how the Secret Service or the CIA or the space aliens stole the "real" fragments/casings and substituted fake ones or whatever---and if you have some "evidence" that any of this ever actually happened, people may even take you seriously.  Until then, you're just waving your arms and spinning evidence-free woo-woo stories.

                In the end, reality always wins.

                by Lenny Flank on Mon Nov 18, 2013 at 07:07:35 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

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