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View Diary: White Man's Burden - the Israeli Occupation Version (43 comments)

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  •  It's hard for people to understand (1+ / 0-)
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    how it is to live near people whose ethnic brethren mounted numerous wars to eradicate Israel, and whose other members committed numerous terrorist attacks against Jewish civilians. Until you live it, you will never understand.

    As someone whose family includes Israeli Jews, I understand their determination. They are an the opposite side from you but they will fight for their survival with everything they got.

    •  As an Israeli, I am insulted by your insinuation.. (8+ / 0-)

      ...that the petty thievery going on in the Susya area and elsewhere under the guise of "proper governance",

      as well as the crassly hypocritical and racist word-games and world-view that justify that thievery,

      are in any way shape form or size, "necessary" for Israel to survive.

      If anything - then the reality is the very opposite.

    •  how are the demolitions and crop destructions (9+ / 0-)

      and arrests, and separation walls, and militarized settlements not terrorist attacks to eliminate palestine, and a constant war to eradicate palestine?

      you cannot have it both ways, unless you make the palestinians and israeli arabs non-persons, and pretend the past half century didn't happen.

      •  there is too much history (0+ / 0-)

        that justifies a lot of it. Especially the separation walls which prevented so much palestinian terrorism.

        I certainly don't view any of what Israel is doing as "terrorism". Preventive and defensive actions, sure.

        Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza are not Israelies and due to their hostile history, should not have Israeli rights, and they do not. Israeli Arabs living in Israel proper on the other hand should have Israeli rights.

        That's how I view it.

    •  How the west was won... (4+ / 0-)
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      Assaf, AoT, corvo, Jackson L Haveck

      Against my people.

      Was with that same argument.

      We 'Savages' waged numerous wars to wipe the whites off our continent. But they bravely fought for their survival until they had us down from 10+ million to 120,000 in camps.

      And then debated whether or not to exterminate that last few in a Final Solution (the author of Wizard of Oz was one such party arguing for us being killed off to the last man, woman, and child).

      We on the other hand, point to numerous treaties over the years that we had thought meant the conflict was over, and it was time to just live on. But they kept presuming we were going to strike.

      And if we didn't, they'd build "settlements" across the border in our lands, and then call in the US Calvary when we tried to push those settlers out.

      And yes, we too had no "nation state". Like the people of Palestine we were not invited to the treaty of Westfalia in the 1600s.

      We were just a series of 'ethnicities'. Sometimes, like the Palestinians under the Ottomans, we lived under the umbrella of somebody else's larger empire, like the Huron or Iroqois.

      But that did not mean we did not exist.

      Now I'm going to say something that will get some people pretty mad...

      Abuse travels the generations. We know this, when a parent abuses a child, that child grows to abuse its own children.

      Hitler studied under Ford's letters. Ford looked to the Indian Wars, and many of his generation suggested the same for the Jews. The Jews were brutalized by Hitler... and some who rule in Israel have merely taken that abuse and transferred it down to those under their yolk now.

      Yes the Arab states fought wars to eradicate Israel. Why? Because when the British abused them, and then left - they left under terms that were untenable to everyone there. They set up a conflict. That conflict was waged. Israel survived.

      Which Arab nation is attacking Israel now? Who are they at war with? 1967 is a long time ago.

      Its time to stop fighting that war, on a people who have long been crushed.

      Many of the Arab states talk a very harsh game when it comes to Israel. Given the occupation, this should surprise no one. More important is that many have signed for peace, and others recognize a de-facto peace.

      But the Palestinians, are still living in camps, and not at all by choice...

      OMG, like, gag them with a multi-colored spoon. Like, ya know.

      by Jyotai on Mon Nov 18, 2013 at 12:58:26 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  arab states have 99% of the land in the region (0+ / 0-)

        I couldn't give a damn for the reasons they talk against Israel. They've tried multiple times to destroy Israel (btw you forgot 1973). How neutrally you portray those attempts - it's the British fault Arabs tried to wipe out Israel.

        Arab states can't attack Israel because they are nowhere near strong enough to win, and because Israel got nukes. Those are the only reasons Arab states stopped fighting Israel.

        Palestinians have been terrorizing Israelis via suicide attacks for a long time, and after that via rockets from Gaza. If Arab States really cared about Palestinians they would've long welcomed them into their countries with open arms. But instead we all know how they treat them.

        The Palestinian conditions are a great and never ending way for Arab countries to shift the focus from the horrendous conditions and human rights in their own societies.

        The only way to prevent Palestinians from attacking Israeli civilians is through the check points and the walls. I would prefer Israel just left most of West Bank, let Palestine be its own country, and separate themselves from Palestinians forever. Of course it's where you draw the lines where the disputes lie.

        •  They have a lot of land so it's okay to (5+ / 0-)
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          corvo, Jyotai, IndieGuy, poco, Flyswatterbanjo

          ethnically cleanse Arabs. Right, that's great.

          If Arab States really cared about Palestinians they would've long welcomed them into their countries with open arms.
          No, just no. If my friend gets kicked out of his house by a violence then I would do best to get his house back, not overcrowd my house.

          And Israeli Jews have been terrorizing Palestinians for a long time. So I'm sure you'd be fine with Palestinians taking Israeli land because of that as well.

          •  if your friend gets kicked out (0+ / 0-)

            because he tried to kill the neighbor, he ain't never getting his house back. No matter how hard he and you try.

            •  You support racist ethnic cleansing (1+ / 0-)
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              Because Arab nations attacked. Blaming all Palestinians for the actions of Arab countries is racism, pure and simple. Denying Palestinians their right to return home after they were ethnically cleansed is racism.

              You can pretend Israel holds some sort of moral high ground all you want but that's bullshit. You pretend like Palestinians weren't driven from their homes before Israel was a state. I doubt you know anything but the Israeli propaganda.

              •  Palestinians were not ethnically cleansed (0+ / 0-)

                They fled because of the war their Arab brethren started. Also no one seriously expects any return happening.

                •  Just keep on pretending that there were no (0+ / 0-)

                  Jewish terror groups. Your denial of historical fact is telling.

                  Also no one seriously expects any return happening.
                  Because we all know how racist and colonialist Israel is.
                •  My point stands... (1+ / 0-)
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                  My point stands...

                  Regardless of someone triggering my anger yesterday... and the "oh so you're just one of them" reply...

                  Israel is repeating the cycle that was done against its people - rather than learning from history.

                  As a Native American, I look to the genocide done against my own people, and I see a parallel. Cordoning us off - building settlements in our lands, and using our objections to such as an excuse to send in a military response.

                  As well, using the threat posed by one set of people, as an excuse to persecute another. The US fear of Cheyenne, Sioux, Apache, etc... became an excuse to murder or 'contain' members of "tribes" they had already conquered.

                  Will it only end for the Palestinians when there are so few of them left that they can't even lift a stone anymore, as happened to my people?

                  The 'Final Solution' was finished against us... I don't mention Hitler to 'Godwin', I mention him because he kept books written by the people who slaughtered my ancestors in his library, and engaged in commerce with their peers. When called out on his plans, he cited the "Indian Wars" as an example that he was only doing what civilized people do to savages.

                  Atrocities don't happen in a vacuum. Each persecutor learns from his predecessors.

                  Don't be the next people to put it onto another group.

                  OMG, like, gag them with a multi-colored spoon. Like, ya know.

                  by Jyotai on Tue Nov 19, 2013 at 12:20:48 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

    •  As someone whose family also includes (8+ / 0-)

      Israeli Jews, I find your rationalization of land stealing, the demolition of lives and the militant expansion of Jewish rights on the backs of Palestinians to be morally abhorrent.

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