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View Diary: A Conservative Argument for Raising the Minimum Wage (108 comments)

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  •  doubtful (0+ / 0-)

    "In addition, the increase in FICA withholdings would "save" Social Security and Medicare."

    Increased taxes going also mean that these people would be entitled to more benefits when they retire. This cannot save SS unless somehow most of the extra money these people contribute was going to other people. Which of course would mean that it was a horrible deal for these people.

    •  First, most of the people wouldn't be collecting (7+ / 0-)

      SS for decades.  Second, the increase in SS payments do not directly correlate to payments.  If an average income of $20,000 results in SS payments of $800, an average income of $40,000 does not result in SS payments of $1600, but rather more like $1300.  Therefore, any increase in pay will help "save" SS.

      •  my understanding (0+ / 0-)

        is that low income workers get a better deal than high income workers. I'm not sure where the point is where they start getting back less than they put in. I'd guess it's quite a bit higher than 30K/year, or else the system would not have a solvency issue.

        Even your example does no prove it, as it depends on the rate of return formula. If that 20K generates SS tax enough fr $500 in retirement, then $300/month is being subsidized to get to the $800 benefit. So the extra  20K also generates enough tax for $500 in retirement. In that case there is still $300/month being subsidized and no benefit to the solvency to SS.

        I have no idea what the real numbers are. But the point is without knowing the actual formula, you cannot know if it helps or hurts the system.

      •  $15 an hour in a good economy (0+ / 0-)

        Isnt going to increase FICA by 10 billion a year. We need 90 billion a year to ensure SS solvency thru 2032 and thru 2090.

        Secondly most Boomers will be dead by 2048.

        .................expect us......................... FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

        by Roger Fox on Tue Nov 19, 2013 at 04:44:26 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  the thing that would save social security (13+ / 0-)

      is raising the ridiculously low FICA cap

      or having a donut hole where it kicks in again on all income over a million dollars

      Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D.
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      by TrueBlueMajority on Tue Nov 19, 2013 at 06:38:53 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  The concern for Social Security (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      is not the benefits that today's 20-somethings will be drawing when we turn 65, but the benefits that today's 50- and 60-somethings will be drawing into their 80s, coupled with the retirement of today's high-earning 40-somethings partway into that period.

      The bubble of baby boomers is the problem. More specifically, the problem is that Gen X is much smaller than the Baby Boom generation, and the Millenials - who are fairly numerous - aren't making enough money. And our kids - if we even have kids (we might be looking at another demographic contraction if we don't get some stability for young adults soon) - won't be any better off than we are unless something changes.

      One of the best ways to fix SS would be to pay us and our kids more. Raising the minimum wage is probably one of the easier ways to accomplish that. Creating enough decent jobs for us would be better, but that's a more complicated problem from a policy standpoint, and raising the minimum wage is one of the possible solutions to that problem too.

      Increasing the cap on payroll taxes would also help, as would adding a small SS/Medicare levy to the capital gains tax.

      "Let’s just move on, treat everybody with firmness, fairness, dignity, compassion and respect. Let’s be Marines." - Sgt. Maj Michael Barrett on DADT repeal

      by kyril on Tue Nov 19, 2013 at 02:39:22 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I 100% disagree (3+ / 0-)

        the problem for SS, is the 20 million jobs we lost.

        Creating 20 million jobs at 36k each ensures SS solvency thru 2090., Raising the min wage does help, some.

        Remember the CBO scored the 75 year projection and the short fall is .6% of GDP,  in a 15 trillion dollar economy thats 90 billion a year.

        20 million jobs @ 36k is 89.2 billion in additional FICA.

        The SS Trustees own report, under the low cost scenario suggests exactly the same outcome, serious job creation and some wage growth will see SS thru 2090.

        ANd dig this, if we return to historical norms for infrastructure spending, FDR style, we would need to create about 21 million jobs.

        Now here is the important take away......

        The SS shortfall equals the Jobs shortfall which equals the infrastructure shortfall.

        .................expect us......................... FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

        by Roger Fox on Tue Nov 19, 2013 at 05:04:44 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Forget about retirement. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      The CBO the SS shortfall @ .6% of GDP, that 90 billion a year.

      If we create 20 million jobs at 36k each, SS is good thru 2090.

      Thats the scale of the problem and the scale of the solution needed.

      Raising the min wage is wage growth and wage growth helps, but not without some serious job creation.

      .................expect us......................... FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

      by Roger Fox on Tue Nov 19, 2013 at 04:48:40 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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