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  •  It's time for a new CCC and WPA (17+ / 0-)

    The Nation has work to be done building/repairing infrastructure (roads, bridges, a high-voltage DC network,  a rapid national electric heavy rail backbone, etc, etc). At the same time, we have too many unemployed people. Clearly, the private sector is not by itself solving this problem.

    The solution is to put unemployed people back to work at good jobs building/repairing infrastructure, and the surest way to make this happen is for the government to create the programs and directly hire the people to do the work.

    Carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is now 400ppm. That is "Climate Cluster Chaos". (hat tip to JeffW for CCC)

    by Zinman on Fri Dec 27, 2013 at 03:44:39 PM PST

    •  With all our extra money? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AlexDrew, Sparhawk

      Please specify how you'd fund such largesse, and how youd overcome the decades of regulatory inertia that would swamp them all? We are already $17T in debt, shall we just borrow it all from China?

      Those days are over for us. Too many entrenched interests on both sides of the aisle. Too many regulations. Too many hands in the cookie jar.

      Left Coast Libertarian

      by pacspeed on Fri Dec 27, 2013 at 04:42:02 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  We always seem to find (14+ / 0-)

        bailout money for Wall Street.Apparently we have enough money to give huge tax breaks to profitable corporations. Money to fight wars. Money given to working people does not just sit on the ground, it circulates in the economy.

        Where are all the jobs, Boehner?

        by Dirtandiron on Fri Dec 27, 2013 at 04:48:43 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Taxes (13+ / 0-)

        Poor poor USA. We just don't have enough money to build bridges or fund research or pay for sick people to get care. Or so the those with the money and power would have us believe. But of course the real problem is not lack of sufficient funds. Its about priorities.

        Where could we possibly get the money to care for our own people? For a start we could raise income taxes back to their level under President Reagan. We could close loopholes that allow corporations and the wealthy to avoid taxes by hiding money offshore. We could slash military spending. We could stop pouring public money into corporate coffers through privatization of government. The money can be raised. It can be done, but you're right about one thing. Entrenched interests want to stop that.

        Heck, we could even print money. We've got the presses and they are ready for action. We just have to stop with the defeatism and stop listening to billionaires who will stop at nothing to protect their riches while they impoverish the rest of us.

        Largesse. What a laugh. We are a rich country but the riches are being hoarded by the privileged few.

      •  Yep, we can waste $25B on a shutdown. (13+ / 0-)

        But the same $25B can never, ever be used to help the unemployed.

        We have the money.  Our priorities on using it are just massively screwed up.

      •  What about ending... (5+ / 0-)

        ... our adventure in Afganistan?

        That'd free up almost $2B per week, about $100B over a year. Still borrowed but, personally, I'd rather we were borrowing to improve our infrastructure than for stuff that explodes.

      •  Silly Talking Points (7+ / 0-)

        This is straight out of the Libertarian Book of Jive.

        The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.

        by The Lone Apple on Fri Dec 27, 2013 at 05:42:59 PM PST

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      •  I wish you would lay off (9+ / 0-)

        the "Borrowing from China" bs. Most of our debt is held by US citizens. That's a RWNJ talking point, and has been discredited many times over!

        •  Do you have a link? (0+ / 0-)

          L

          •  google is your friend (0+ / 0-)

            because I am in a didactic mood I decided to do the work for you on this one.

            i googled who holds majority of US debt and found:

            The largest holder of U.S. debt is, of course, the United States itself; the majority is American-owned.
            stick around dK long enough and you too can learn these simple fact checking skills

            Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D.
            Drop by The Grieving Room on Monday nights for support in dealing with grief.

            by TrueBlueMajority on Sat Dec 28, 2013 at 02:41:55 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I knew it wasn't true and wanted (0+ / 0-)

              to see your bullshit source. Just what I thought. generic Google search.

              As of March 2013:

              China: 32.8%
              Japan: 6.4%
              Other Foreign: 17%
              Fed (US): 8.9%
              Other Gov: 8%
              US Private: 26.9%

              Do the math dumbass.

              "stick around dK long enough and you too can learn these simple fact checking skills". Yeah right

              http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/...

              •  your source is some guy named Bill Mitchell (0+ / 0-)

                tell me about him.  is he supposed to be a big deal?

                is he supposed to be a more reliable source than the GAO?

                Debt held by international investors is less than half the amount of debt held by the public, and the debt not held by the public is held by the Social Security and Medicare trust funds

                Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D.
                Drop by The Grieving Room on Monday nights for support in dealing with grief.

                by TrueBlueMajority on Sun Dec 29, 2013 at 06:02:37 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Hey Unicorn, just saw your response (0+ / 0-)

                  Not very bright are you?

                  He is actually well respected. But here you go:

                  http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

                  Make sure you the blurb inside the chart. "Foreign investers hold the largest share of US debt".

                                                       _____

                  •  LOLOLOL ROFLMFAO (0+ / 0-)

                    ok, ok, i've stopped laughing now.  whew.  that was almost Colbert funny.

                    first--read the title of the chart:  FOREIGN holdings of US Debt.

                    second--read the article itself: it makes clear that the chart is only referring to foreign holdings of US debt.

                    third--read the last sentence of the article:  The largest holder of U.S. debt is, of course, the United States itself; the majority is American-owned.

                    cherry on top--you did not even notice you linked to the VERY SAME CHART I linked to on December 28th that you "knew wasn't true" and called a "bullshit source"!

                    omg that was funny.  when i saw your link i laughed until tears came out of my eyes.

                    from the context, the only thing that makes sense there is that the word "who" is missing.  It obviously should have read "Foreign investors WHO hold the largest share of US debt.

                    BTW, namecalling like "dumbass" and remarks like "not very bright are you" are not well thought of around here.

                    Plus they only work with people who are insecure about how smart they are, which does not apply to most of us at dK :-D

                    Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D.
                    Drop by The Grieving Room on Monday nights for support in dealing with grief.

                    by TrueBlueMajority on Sat Jan 04, 2014 at 08:42:53 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  and (0+ / 0-)

                    you did not comment about my GAO source, which is as clear as possibly can be, but let me break it down for you

                    the bar chart shows a blue bar representing all debt held by the public.  $11.3 trillion.

                    then the first pie chart shows a green segment representing that only 48% (less than half) of the debt held by the public is held by international investors.

                    so the amount held by ALL international investors is less than half of $11.3 trillion, or about 5.6 trillion

                     the rest of the amount held by the public (the grey shaded area in the pie chart) is about 5.7 trillion.

                    Now go back to the bar chart.

                    Add the 4.8 trillion in debt held by government accounts (the purple bar in the bar chart) to the 5.7 trillion from the grey shaded area of the pie chart, and you see that the domestic holdings of US debt are approximately 10.5 trillion.

                    which is way more than the 5.6 trillion held by all foreign investors combined, which (duh) just happens to match the TOTAL shown on the chart we both linked to (see the right margin of the chart)

                    we have spent over a decade learning how to factcheck each other here.  it is very hard to win an argument without reputable links.

                    you told me a few posts ago to do the math (with an unnecessary personal insult tacked on).  now i have done it.

                    if that's not clear enough for you, I can't help you, Sundance

                    Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D.
                    Drop by The Grieving Room on Monday nights for support in dealing with grief.

                    by TrueBlueMajority on Sat Jan 04, 2014 at 09:06:00 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

      •  too many uniformed people (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Curt Matlock, TrueBlueMajority

        Willing to believe and propagate right wing squawking points.

        “Vote for the party closest to you, but work for the movement you love.” ~ Thom Hartmann 6/12/13

        by ozsea1 on Fri Dec 27, 2013 at 08:26:22 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Borrow and spend like a motherfucker (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Zinman

        Y'know, how we got out of the Great Depression.

        Or, we could keep this depression going strong, for a long time. Neofeudalist thinking like that is unfortunately a renewable resource.

        Government and laws are the agreement we all make to secure everyone's freedom.

        by Simplify on Fri Dec 27, 2013 at 11:17:19 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  The Fed is financing Wall Street every month. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Zinman
        •  You people are living in a fantasy land. (0+ / 0-)

          If you seriously think you can "borrow and spend like a motherfucker" your way to prosperity.

          Basic arithmetic: To spend x on a project (regardless of merit), the government must collect x + n (n=the amount it uses to collect, apportion, and spend "x"). Therefore, no matter how much you want govt to spend on the pet project of your choice, it must extract MORE than that from the very people you purport to be helping by said expenditure.

          Or you can do it the way we've done for decades, and spend x+n+the interest rate on the debt we pile up.

          Your arguments that "Yeah, well they only should take it from the rich assholes who are hoarding it" is simply infantile. The rich are not "hoarding" anything. They are acting exactly as you, I, or John Q Public would. Maximising their assets the best they can.

          And to the more important point: We cant do another WPA, because we have strangled ourselves with regulations. Most, not all but most of those came from people just like you (generic DK reader). Just TRY to build another Hoover Dam. You'd have a federal injunction slapped on you faster than you could say Sierra Club.

          Same goes for any big project, they simply grind to a halt over all the conflicting parochial interests, be they labor, environmental, property rights, conflicting business interests whatever. Here in my backyard, the new Bay Bridge stands out as a perfect example. A 4 year 2 Billion dollar project turned into an 11 year 6 billion dollar one. In the bluest of blue states, this is the legacy all those well intentioned policies have wrought.

          Left Coast Libertarian

          by pacspeed on Sat Dec 28, 2013 at 08:42:11 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  That should have been done in (0+ / 0-)

      2009-10. Why wait until we lose the house to go all FDR?

      •  I would not have waited, but I'm not in charge (0+ / 0-)

        It's never too late to do the right thing. Do you agree?

        Carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is now 400ppm. That is "Climate Cluster Chaos". (hat tip to JeffW for CCC)

        by Zinman on Sat Dec 28, 2013 at 10:22:02 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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