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View Diary: Secret court allowed NSA wider NSA surveillance even after finding abuses (45 comments)

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  •  The Congress setting up this kerfuffle in the (5+ / 0-)

    first place is the gross violation. Courts are supposed to get involved AFTER a crime has been committed or there is good reason to supect there has. Our system of justice is not supposed to be preemptive, just as we are not supposed to start preemptive wars.
    The Cons have a problem with this because, IMHO, their lack of a sense of time leaves them always too late or too early. So, given that choice between too early or too late, they opt for the first, even though it violates lots of people's rights.
    Our agents of law enforcementy, having increased their numbers exponentially in response to a fictive war on drugs and confronted with falling rates of violent crime, are desperate to find some new mission. So, they hit upon the crime prevention schtick, regardless of the fact that one-off events cannot be prevented. All we can hope to do is prevent habitual offenders from offending again. Unfortunately, when habitual offenders happen to be verbally adept, they talk themselves out of jams so they can go and do their mischief again.
    That, by the way, is the story about the hijackers that's being convered up -- that some of them had been identified as abusive persons and nothing was done to call a halt.
    Abuse is our achilles heel. The culture of obedience relies on abuse to coerce compliance. Characterizing abuse as a serious offense would put a real dent in the whole culture of obedience.
    I mean, just take basic military training as an example. Is it not SOP to abuse recruits to "toughen them up"?  How are they to learn respect for human rights from that experience?
    What is the "traditional marriage" crowd after but lief to go back to beating wives and children when they don't obey?

    •  Even "Habitual Offenders" are being set free (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      hannah

      due to overcrowding in the prisons.

      An illusion can never be destroyed directly... SK.

      by Thomas Twinnings on Wed Nov 20, 2013 at 02:52:46 PM PST

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    •  But the FISCourt hates it when we notice them (0+ / 0-)

      and that we can see that they are just like the Star Chamber at the end of its run.

      The FISCourt needs to be abolished.

      Our civil liberties need to be returned.

      Americans can make our country better.

      by freelunch on Wed Nov 20, 2013 at 05:04:00 PM PST

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    •  Yes, but when the pre-crime evidence isn't (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      hannah

      strong enough to make an arrest, they can set up a well documented sting and present that as evidence.

      How else can we stop congress critters from doing blow?

      I'm a Vietnam Era vet. I'm also an Erma Bombeck Era vet. When cussing me out and calling me names please indicate which vet you would like to respond to your world changing thoughts.

      by Just Bob on Wed Nov 20, 2013 at 05:15:42 PM PST

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