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View Diary: Open Letter to Sockpuppets And Trolls (157 comments)

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  •  MB, so you're saying that that message was (0+ / 0-)

    as receptive now as it was in 2004?  If you are, then I disagree with you.  During the 20 years-plus I've been following this subject/issue, I've never seen the level of awareness of it as high as today.

    Now, putting that issue, which could be called a "side-issue," do you have anything to say about the central theme of this diary?

    •  "message was as receptive" (0+ / 0-)

      receptive message ?

      "please love deeply...openly and genuinely." A. M. H.

      by indycam on Sun Nov 24, 2013 at 10:17:51 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  This diary is, if I am not mistaken... (15+ / 0-)

      ...directed to the participants at Daily Kos. The portion of your diary that I responded to, one that is key to your whole, posits the view that nobody here gets it, unless "universally scoffed at" means something different than what I have always taken the word "universally" to mean. I think you're profoundly mistaken to make that assumption.

      As for trolls and sockpuppets, we've been battling them for the entire existence of this web site, not presuming they don't exist. From Jeff Gannon to the ex-generals and colonels who learned in Pentagon seminars how to be "experts" on television regarding U.S. war policy to the candidate campaign workers who failed to identify themselves, we've done what we could to point them out and, when we caught them here, root them out.

      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Sun Nov 24, 2013 at 10:20:44 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  MB, here's a challenge: (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        lostinamerica, ZhenRen, maggid

        First, let me clarify one more time something that I thought would be clear as water when I wrote this diary.  This diary is not directed to "all" participants at Daily Kos.  This diary is directed at actual sockpuppets and trolls; the real ones.

        That is a huge difference.  If I were to direct this diary to "all" participants of Daily Kos, then that would be an insult.

        Again, here's the title: Open Letter to Sockpuppets And Trolls.

        It's not: Open Letter to Participants at Daily Kos.

        Second, in the diary I lay out the case for identifying the behavior of possible sockpuppets, trolls, and hacks, but I also add a caveat pointing out tat dickish behavior doesn't always mean sockpuppetry, but an ongoing pattern of it may.

        Thirdly, I provide some reference material from other writers who have tackled this issue, and I point out that “The 15 Rules of Web Disruption" is a good source of information on it.

        I'm totally convinced that you are experienced and savvy enough to understand the subject, as it relate to constant barrages of ad hominems, logical fallacies (used to annoy participants and hijack diaries), etc.  In fact, my understanding is that you have the battle scars to know as much (metaphorically speaking).

        Finally, here's the challenge... Sometimes I reference the fab-six.  As other commenters here pointed out, one would have to be blind not to see that there is a tiny group of people who can't help it but to land in my diaries (sometimes) the minute I press "publish" and engage in disruptive behavior (as described in the '15 rules').

        Now, let's say that for some reason you don't agree that this tiny group of people I call the fab-six are engaging in disrupting behavior and are just innocently landing in my diaries (over, and over, and over, and over) to disagree with my premises.

        No, mind you, a user here pointed out kos' "guess in someone's house rule."  Here's how it starts:

        Walking into someone's diary is like walking into someone's home. You are a guest. Act accordingly. That doesn't mean you can't disagree. It just means you have to be civil and courteous and limit your arguments to substance.
        So far so good, right? Here's the challenge: The tiny group of users (fab-six) who keep coming to my diaries engaging in what I've described as violation of site guidelines (BTW, an observation many other users have begun to made as well) sometimes posting dozens of posts each, have probably clicked on them at a ratio that could be said is 99 to 1, when compared to the number of times I visited their diaries.

        In fact, as far as I can remember I haven't visited their diaries at all, never mind posting dozens of messages in several of their diaries.

        Again, as someone else pointed out, if this tiny group of people find me so disagreeable, so wrong, why do they not only keep clicking through, but many times make mention of the fact that I keep hitting the rec list (over and over), and they even criticize people for recommending my diaries?

        Again, you're a smart guy... Would you not say that it is kind of strange for someone to keep clicking on diaries of writers they don't like?  As for me, I find it truly astonishing, dumbfounding, actually.  For the life of me I can't imagine why would I ever click on any of the diaries published by the people I consider to be the "fab-six."

        And that's easy... You know why?  Because there are so many great writers here.  I never fail to read your diaries, or MOT, or OPOL, or LaFeminista, or Words in Action, or countless other truly great diarists here.

        Why do this tiny group of people keep coming back for more?  The more they do it, the more obvious it becomes to others; to the point that I don't even have to engage them anymore.

        Do you have a theory as to the 99 to 1 (or 100 to 0) ratio when it comes to the fab-six visiting my diaries vs. me visiting theirs?

        Oh, if you don't know who the fab-six are, just browse my last 25 or 30 diaries... You're going to notice a pattern; it jumps at you like a shark.

        •  Are these people who you think disrupt your (3+ / 0-)

          ... diaries "sockpuppets" or "trolls?"

          Really, you've been beating this dead horse for months and months.  

          You shouldn't be so afraid to be direct, Ray. Speak clearly. Maybe then people wouldn't be so confused about what you're trying to communicate with your diaries.

          "Bob Johnson doesn't have special privileges, because really, why would I entrust that guy with ANYTHING?" - kos, November 9, 2013

          by Bob Johnson on Sun Nov 24, 2013 at 09:14:27 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

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