Skip to main content

View Diary: Growing concern about safety of homeschooled kids in North Carolina (121 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Annual academic testing for home schooled (8+ / 0-)

    children in a public setting? Like No Child Left Behind to be Murdered By Their Sick Parents?
    If the US can spy on every citizen for out "security" I am sure we can find a reasonable compromise. Some people believe their children are their "property" of which they can exercise unlimited property rights.  

    "You can die for Freedom, you just can't exercise it"

    by shmuelman on Sun Nov 24, 2013 at 12:39:24 PM PST

    •  Because the annual (4+ / 0-)

      testing is working out so well for public schools?

      And what does academic testing have to do with physical abuse?

      •  Hmmm... I didn't think of that... Oh wait... (6+ / 0-)

        How about the children have to appear in a public setting once a year to a) see their physical condition and b) see if they are getting any education whatsoever or are just neglected.

        "You can die for Freedom, you just can't exercise it"

        by shmuelman on Sun Nov 24, 2013 at 01:02:47 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Makes all kids who are homeschooled (5+ / 0-)

        have to come out and be seen, accounted for.  Signs of any possible abuse can be seen at that time, evaluation that the children are learning factual information that will allow them to contribute to our world.  Lots of reasons for it outside of "STANDARDIZED TESTS SUCK!!!!1111!1"

        Listening to the NRA on school safety is like listening to the tobacco companies on cigarette safety. (h/t nightsweat)

        by PsychoSavannah on Sun Nov 24, 2013 at 01:05:11 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  someone outside the family sees the kids in person (5+ / 0-)

        at least once a year.  That's what it has to do with physical abuse.

        •  Not necessarily. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Another Grizzle

          We have computers here in hsing land. :)

          But say you could force that. So my kid has to go take a test for the purpose of you physically inspecting him? How would that work?

          •  same as the ACT/SAT (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Tonedevil, RuralLiberal

            Your registered homeschool kid comes to a test centre once a year.  Takes a test after the adult provides their (adult) ID and a birth certificate for the kid.  Kid takes a test.  Everyone goes home.

            If your kid looks abused - someone at the testing centre will report it. Not confront you, not harrass you - just send CPS after your ass.

            •  Your idea of providing (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Mortifyd, tobendaro

              adult ID and child's birth certificate is excellent!  This would foil someone who has abducted a child.

              Who knows how many missing children have been hidden away and "home schooled" over the years.

              Stand Up! Keep Fighting! Paul Wellstone

              by RuralLiberal on Sun Nov 24, 2013 at 02:07:05 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  It would certainly make it a bit harder to hide (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                2dot

                a child - even in the cases of parental snatching where they could get a birth certificate legally.  

                There is nothing wrong with homeschooling kids.  I am not anti homeschooling in any way - though I am anti stupid.  But I don't see how a once a year test to see how your kid is doing compared to others in their age/grade group as horrifically invasive or denying your right to educate your child in a controlled environment.

                I also think that transportation should be provided for these tests - because some people don't have cars.  Use school buses, church vans - whatever, but don't put the onus on the parents to get their kids to the testing centre - make it as easy and painless as possible for everyone involved.

                •  Standardized testing Draco (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Nance

                  Would completely blow his routine, this means he would lose at least 2-4 weeks ahead of time as I try to get him ready for the concept of going back to a school (which he's terrified of because of bullying) to be tested, and then 2-4 weeks of melt downs afterward dealing with the fall out.

                  AND then I'd still need IEP meetings and such with the school to deal with his accommodations during the test, which takes more time away from his schooling. Then the week long test  because it takes him that long to do it because he can't sit for hours on end taking a test. Then there's the chance that he'll have several off days during that time when he can't focus to actually complete a test.

                  I love you Mortifyd, but this would NOT work for us. Avoiding the FCAT is part of the reason we started homeschooling. It wasn't doing him any good (according to the FCAT he was always on grade level, according to his report cards/IEP/school work I saw he was not). And it was doing him real harm.

                  "Madness! Total and complete madness! This never would've happened if the humans hadn't started fighting one another!" Londo Mollari

                  by FloridaSNMOM on Sun Nov 24, 2013 at 06:55:18 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

            •  So you would have thousands (0+ / 0-)

              of hsers forced to take an unnecessary (and who is going to pay? generous of you to provide a ride to the exam, though) standardized test so the proctor can give his opinion about whether or not some of them look abused? Is this person going to be trained to spot a kid who is abused versus one who is disheveled? Abused or shy? Abused or skateboarder (bruises)? Is that even possible in such a brief encounter?

              And when CPS (DCF here) comes after my ass for having a child who wore a rumpled shirt and did not make appropriate, according to the proctor, eye contact -- how will that go?    

              Do you think CPS/DCF departments across the country have extra resources to spend following up on these leads? Or are you contemplating an increase in funding to cover the dozens (hundreds?) of extra and unfounded investigations these already overworked and underfunded saints have to do?

              And do you think that if I am a child abuser (or child abductor as mentioned below) that I am going to comply with this program?

              And do you think that hsers in general will comply, none of us being able to suggest that this new system would be an unwarranted and warrantless search of our child, an unconstitutional and unjustified intrusion into our privacy?

              Do you have any idea what you are talking about or how hsing works?

              •  flail flail flail. (0+ / 0-)

                It could be done.  You just don't WANT it to.

              •  Yes, I do know what I'm talking about (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                wonderful world

                and how homeschooling works (in areas I'm familiar with) and NO it's not an invasion of privacy to make some kind of measurement to gauge whether or not kids who are outside the traditional school system are actually GETTING an education.  Because while most do - some don't.

                I AM autistic, so yes, I'm taking "poor eye contact" into consideration among other things.  You don't get a free pass to do whatever you like - you are charged with and accepting the responsibility of providing education.   Anyone who refuses to do so is actually raising a flag right there that something is wrong.

                There can be checks on that without massive expense or being considered burdensome on your freedom to be a recluse control freak if that's your thing.  Because your kid may grow up and want to be part of the real world - and that's bloody hard without a freaking education.

    •  See Homeschoolingmom right above you n/t (0+ / 0-)

      Listening to the NRA on school safety is like listening to the tobacco companies on cigarette safety. (h/t nightsweat)

      by PsychoSavannah on Sun Nov 24, 2013 at 01:00:52 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  And I disagree with her tea party hyperbole. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tobendaro, 2dot

        Do you consider annual testing in a public environment to be "police state" tactics? This is kind of a tea party thing where people are screaming about their "freedoms" and calling for succession when the Feds want to enforce any number of rules, from gay marriage to environmental standards to teaching evolution. Do you think setting basic literacy standards for homeschooling are too much? Just because homeschoolingmom feels she can do whatever she likes, she really can't, because the state insists on education for children up to a certain age. Is that the "police state?"

        "You can die for Freedom, you just can't exercise it"

        by shmuelman on Sun Nov 24, 2013 at 01:12:01 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I think 'homeschoolingmom" above is (0+ / 0-)

          a little cracked.

          Listening to the NRA on school safety is like listening to the tobacco companies on cigarette safety. (h/t nightsweat)

          by PsychoSavannah on Sun Nov 24, 2013 at 01:24:50 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  ROFL (5+ / 0-)

          Wow. You dislike my views so I must be a tea partier? Not so much. I am the crazy, bleeding heart liberal in my crowd of liberal friends. But this is my problem with Democrats-the government has an important role. It needs to help people who need help. It should provide basic social services. But it should not be involving itself in people's personal choices. Who I choose to have sex with, whether I choose an abortion, how I mow my grass, how I educate my children-these things are my choices, not the government's.

          •  So, you seem to be a libertarian liberal (4+ / 0-)

            Which is fine. But from your perspective, how do we best protect defenseless children from being neglected or abused under the cover of homeschooling and a parent's right to educate their children as they choose? For some parents how they "choose" to educate their children is at the end of a belt or a boot toe. It's not that a public school education is in any way superior educationally, as we all know it often isn't. But at least in its being public it provides some broader community oversight on the general well-being of the kids in attendance.

            “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

            by Catte Nappe on Sun Nov 24, 2013 at 01:56:18 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  The same as in public schools (6+ / 0-)

              If there is evidence of abuse then it should be investigated. Otherwise leave people alone. Every homeschooler that I know is involved in multiple activities. Their children are seen. If abuse is occurring, it will as likely be seen in a homeschool setting as in public school.

              •  "The same as public schools" is not an answer (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                mskitty, shmuelman

                In a public school the child is seen daily by teachers, counselors, bus drivers, other children and their parents.  Evidence of abuse is visible so that it has a better chance of being noted, reported and investigated. In home schooling that is not the case. In home schooling which is providing cover for neglect and abuse it definitely isn't the case.

                Try again. How do we best protect defenseless children from being neglected or abused under the cover of homeschooling and a parent's right to educate their children as they choose?

                “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

                by Catte Nappe on Sun Nov 24, 2013 at 02:18:11 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  It is an answer (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Another Grizzle, FloridaSNMOM

                  Most homeschooled children are seen by multiple adults on a weekly basis. The children interact with the adults, discussing their lives and interests. With the exception of those few children who are kept fully isolated, signs of abuse would be as evident to the parents involved as they would be to a teacher. For those isolated children, if abuse occurring, I don't believe that many of the parents would submit to a background check anyway or they would with full knowledge that a background check would show nothing. So it would be a choice to interfere with the privacy rights of all homeschoolers on the off-chance that an abuser would be found. I am not willing to give up my rights.

                  The reality is that there are no good solutions. Abusers are very good at hiding their abuse. But that does not mean that we start taking away the rights of parents in a futile attempt to change that. People are innocent until proven guilty. Parents should be treated as innocent until their is real evidence of wrongdoing.

                  •  At the very least, there needs to be some way (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    2dot, mskitty, Treetrunk

                    to improve recordkeeping requirements.  That would at least provide one way to make sure parents are really operating a school, and not just using it as a cover.

                  •  Acceptable collateral damage, then? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    mskitty

                    I don't think background checks are the answer, nor mandatory home visits. I think periodic public testing might have some potential. Mandatory annual physicals, maybe? Schools used to do eye and hearing exams. Maybe something along those lines required for home schooled kids, too?

                    “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

                    by Catte Nappe on Sun Nov 24, 2013 at 03:21:32 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                •  Do you have an answer, (0+ / 0-)

                  Catte Nappe? If you are unwilling to accept the answer that we cannot protect every child in every situation, what do you propose? Background checks is a non-starter. Standardized testing is ridiculous. Inspections of each child by some official -- not going to happen. What do you think could possibly work and be legal and respectful of the vast majority of hsers doing nothing wrong?

                •  I was an abused child in public school. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Treetrunk

                  I was emotionally, verbally and physically abused by my alcoholic father. You know who noticed it? No one. I went to public school every day. I hid bruises with make up. I changed in the locker room with everyone else. NO ONE NOTICED IT. Heck, the principle went to school with my dad and was bullied by my dad. He didn't bother with me, because I was quiet and stayed out of trouble. No one noticed it, or if they did, they didn't care.

                  I am a home schooling parent. My children are NOT abused. Sometimes they have privileges taken away. Sometimes they have extra chores to do. But they aren't beaten, by hand or with a belt. They aren't sworn at, no one in the house drinks more than a glass or a shot of alcohol a month. And they learn a LOT every day, both about traditional school subjects and about life skills that they need to succeed as adults.

                  "Madness! Total and complete madness! This never would've happened if the humans hadn't started fighting one another!" Londo Mollari

                  by FloridaSNMOM on Sun Nov 24, 2013 at 07:53:56 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  I had a friend growing up who was abused (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  FloridaSNMOM

                  along with his siblings, except for the oldest one who was engaging in abuse along with the parents.  The children went to public schools.

                  The father was both a minister of a local church and the school board superintendent.  

                  Supervision and oversight by public school does not protect the children from abuse.

              •  Yes, if it were thought by my neighbors or (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                FloridaSNMOM

                the local clubs we are involved with--that I or my husband were abusing or neglecting our children, I would not have them long.

                Assuming I would not be publicly beaten by the other adults in their lives, before the police arrive, and then there would be a line of people waiting to foster and adopt them right out from under me.

                Sheesh.

                Gentlemen, congratulations. You're everything we've come to expect from years of government training (Zed, MIB).

                by GreenMother on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 05:48:22 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  Did not mean to imply you were a tea partier (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Treetrunk

            Your liberties are strongly mitigated just by the fact that you must educate your child. This is part of a civilized society, and everyone is expected to submit to it. I know very few home schooled children, except a few who are educated though a coop structure, and they are all religious - Jewish so they could get a strong education in the Hebrew language, by people with PhD level educations. I know a few who were educated at home because the parents did not want them to know about dinosaurs, evolution, science in general. This is a huge disservice to the children and to our society, but I would not want the government to intervene as long as they learn to read, write, do math, learn US civics.

            "You can die for Freedom, you just can't exercise it"

            by shmuelman on Sun Nov 24, 2013 at 07:49:57 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  No, I wouldn't use those words. (3+ / 0-)

          I use a whole bunch of other words to describe the miserable failure that is NCLB and standardized testing and standardization of children.

          I think you setting standards for my children is too much.

          And the state does not, at least my state does not, insist on education for children. What it insists on is attendance.

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site