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View Diary: Report: U.S. Gov. And Corporate Security Companies Collude to Bring Down Social Justice Groups (216 comments)

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  •  Plans of action are better than manifestos. (2+ / 0-)
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    terrypinder, serendipityisabitch

    Everyone wants to build a fire. No one wants to build a bridge.

    I am happy to support awareness and action campaigns like those against Pink Slime (victory) and Flush Rush which is a runaway success that will fell his sugar daddy broadcasters as well.

    What I will not support is handwringing using overly charged emotional tones, Godwins, fallacies, and anything that tells me that a person is more interested in feeling better about themselves than they are about accomplishing a goal. The world has enough armchair whatevers, thank you very much.

    •  Hey, you've been here over 2 years and have (6+ / 0-)

      only published one diary (which you then unpublished)?  Have you garnered any supporters?

      This post of yours kind of reminds me of this:

      Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent’s argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues.
      And this:
      Question motives. Twist or amplify any fact which could so taken to imply that the opponent operates out of a hidden personal agenda or other bias. This avoids discussing issues and forces the accuser on the defensive.
      It's kind of weird, isn't it?
    •  Yu have to point out the problem before (4+ / 0-)

      your can do anything about it. You seem to avoid taking a position on this specific problem and instead engage in ad hominems("arm chair whatevers") without addressing anythign of substance. I'm sure if he gave some suggested action you'd find some goal post to move to avoid talking about the issue as well.

      And if you do want action on this issue then I'd suggest you figure out an action to take instead of doing what you complain about others doing, which is just complaining.

      •  I will take the time to correct you... (0+ / 0-)

        Some people love speaking in loud bellicose tones that make themselves feel better, such as the diarist did. Those same people don't often engage in any meaningful action.

        I'm sure if he gave some suggested action you'd find some goal post to move to avoid talking about the issue as well.
        My goal posts have never changed. And everyone loves to shout "someone should do something!" Ok do something. Not a moved goalpost. It's the same goalpost I've always had, you just aren't honest enough to debate on honest terms. You prefer rhetoric over reason. You operate under the same fallacies and posturing that the other side engages in.
        And if you do want action on this issue then I'd suggest you figure out an action to take instead of doing what you complain about others doing, which is just complaining.
        When I want your suggestions, I'll solicit them.
        •  So then what are you doing other than complaining? (0+ / 0-)

          Or do you not realize you're guilty of the same thing you accuse the diarist of.

          And seriously, you're ignored the various attempts the diarists has made to organize people. Some complete flops, but some less so. Unless you think it only counts if is wildly successful, but I think you're more reasonable than that.

          And I've done plenty as well.

          That's why I accuse you of moved goal posts. Because the people you're talking about have bee doing something. It just doesn't count because you haven't seen it? Or because it isn't the specific action you haven't specified.

          If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

          by AoT on Wed Nov 27, 2013 at 06:01:58 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  You accused me because you had no better argument (0+ / 0-)

            so you just decided to write a fantasy and apply it to me. You don't have the maturity to disagree in a structured way so you accuse me of many things and try to censor me, or rather get me to self-censor as if you have that kind of persuasion.

            It just doesn't count because you haven't seen it? Or because it isn't the specific action you haven't specified.
            None of what I just quoted has anything to do with what I've said. From now on, quote what I say directly since you obviously have a penchant for inventing positions I've not taken.

            My original post stands. Actions beat manifestos every time. You think Wal-Mart and corporations are writing diaries like the one above? No. They're enacting plans of action and they have it down to a science. And you'd better believe they salivate at people like the diarist, whose emotionally charged fallacies they can exploit endlessly.

            You don't believe your posts at this point. You just think falling on your sword for your hilariously wrong position is the same thing as integrity/strength.  It isn't.

            •  You did nothing but accuse (0+ / 0-)

              And then you get up on your horse and claim others are doing the same thing.

              None of what I just quoted has anything to do with what I've said. From now on, quote what I say directly since you obviously have a penchant for inventing positions I've not taken.
              That's funny, because I thought what you said was "Plans of action are better than manifestos." Which is why I brought up the fact that Ray has had plenty of plans of actions and you've had none. You have done nothing but talk shit. Unless you have some other account where you've written action diaries that you just don't want anyone to know about. You haven't addressed the actual issue I brought up, and instead use the same tired fucking anti-leftist bullshit that so many do.

              So then let me ask you again, what exactly is wrong with the actual plans of action that Ray has come up with that they don't meet your threshold of actually counting as a pan of action? I bet it's that you don't agree with them, not that they don't exist. But keep on pretending like he's never had a plan of action. Not like you, you have a clearly laid out pan of action right... uh.. right here? Oh, oops, nope, you just criticize. That sounds surprisingly like the criticism you're leveling against Ray. But change the subject again.

              Unless you know of a way to fix things without pointing out the problems. Which was the original point I made, that you chose not to address.

              If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

              by AoT on Wed Nov 27, 2013 at 07:47:48 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

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