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View Diary: "Thank You Edward Snowden!" Ad Campaign Hits Washington, D.C. (216 comments)

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  •  I am aware that companies are hired... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AoT, sunbro, HudsonValleyMark

    by the NSA to do work for them, but does that mean the folks at Booz Allen Hamilton are spying on civilians and passing the info on to other corporations and why would they?

    This is not about corporate control of our legislators, it's about the privatization of our spying and who we are spying on and if we are all okay with it.

    I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

    by jbou on Wed Nov 27, 2013 at 07:27:56 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Why would they? (18+ / 0-)

      Because those terrorists protesters don't like what they're doing and are exercising their freedom of speech to petition for redress of grievances in the court of public opinion?

      That's obviously a threat to the power structure.

      Feel free to read that with or without snark.

      I'm a Vietnam Era vet. I'm also an Erma Bombeck Era vet. When cussing me out and calling me names please indicate which vet you would like to respond to your world changing thoughts.

      by Just Bob on Wed Nov 27, 2013 at 07:51:11 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  the kangaroo court of public opinon (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        AoT, HudsonValleyMark, Kickemout

        the public is not very bright and airing your opinions to the public doesn't guarantee the public will see it your way. I see the liberal message get out just fine over the airwaves, on the internet and in magazines. I see the right wing message get spread far and wide and guess what. We still have about the same amount of liberals and right wingers we've always had.

        I could go on and on about how we don't have a strong threat to capitalism anymore and that the capitalists have gotten too brazen and that this is probably going to lead to a bloody revolt one day, but not while iphones are still free with a two year contract.

        I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

        by jbou on Wed Nov 27, 2013 at 08:13:12 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Wow. Just wow. (13+ / 0-)

          From reading that I guess there's no use in fighting for anything.

          For the record, I'm not quite that discouraged and I have a little more faith in humanity.

          Oh, one more thing, I don't own an iphone or any other cell phone. I wonder if that changes one's respective?

          I'm a Vietnam Era vet. I'm also an Erma Bombeck Era vet. When cussing me out and calling me names please indicate which vet you would like to respond to your world changing thoughts.

          by Just Bob on Wed Nov 27, 2013 at 09:53:14 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  The public hated MLK (7+ / 0-)

            They absolutely loathed him. They hate congress even more. And yet both have had a profound effect on our country. Majority support is over-rated.

            If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

            by AoT on Wed Nov 27, 2013 at 10:00:21 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  We only need 3 to 5 percent of the population (8+ / 0-)

              in sustained resistance/opposition to the corporate state to bring it down.

              •  where do you get your numbers from? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                HudsonValleyMark

                I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

                by jbou on Wed Nov 27, 2013 at 10:15:56 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  it took only one Snowden (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Ray Pensador

                  to get the entire corrupt international house of cards to panic.

                  Now imagine a couple hundred Snowdens.

                  The October Revolution was pulled off by a rather small group of people who happened to be in the right place and had worked up connections.

                  Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                  by corvo on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 06:18:20 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

              •  I've read the same. Trying to (5+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                JesseCW, Ray Pensador, Just Bob, corvo, martini

                remember my sources, though. I've read so many treatises on resistance by now...

                It makes perfect sense, though. I mean, 10 to 15 million people in D.C. and on Wall St. would bring this thing to head damn quick.

                Or we could just win a few elections for "more and better Democrats" who will just sit down and negotiate away more of the people's income, wealth and rights.

                That's probably a good compromise approach.

                Trust, but verify. - Reagan
                Vote, but Occupy. - commonmass

                When the rich have tripled their share of the income and wealth yet again, Republicans will still blame the poor and 3rd Way Democrats will still negotiate.

                by Words In Action on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 07:10:18 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Anecdotally, (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Ray Pensador

                  it occurs to me that this is like the inherent weakness in the Stanford Prison Experiment.  

                  In that case, too few spoke up to protest --  (until researcher's gf (Christina Maslach) bitched about it, and two who quit, but even research himself got caught up in it!) -- think of how it would have turned out instead if 3-5% had spoken up, risen up in protest?

                  How many would have snapped out of it and said "oh HELL YES you're RIGHT this shit is EVIL!!" ??

            •  I don't remember hating MLK (5+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              viral, HudsonValleyMark, corvo, 3goldens, mkor7

              I do remember my repulsion at the brutality I saw on tv and in the papers.

              I'm a Vietnam Era vet. I'm also an Erma Bombeck Era vet. When cussing me out and calling me names please indicate which vet you would like to respond to your world changing thoughts.

              by Just Bob on Wed Nov 27, 2013 at 10:11:45 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'm guessing (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                JesseCW, StrayCat, AoT

                you didn't live in the Southern states.

                Nothing human is alien to me.

                by WB Reeves on Wed Nov 27, 2013 at 10:57:48 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  You might be surprised at how deep my southern (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  AoT

                  roots go.

                  Drive north from Knoxville until you reach a tee in the road. Turn right and drive until you see a dirt track leading past the ruins of an old one room school house. Continue through the creek, no bridge, and up the other side of the hollow. You will find a very old graveyard where my grandparents rest. They're surrounded by gravestones weathered down to mere stubs.

                  Deep roots.

                  I'm a Vietnam Era vet. I'm also an Erma Bombeck Era vet. When cussing me out and calling me names please indicate which vet you would like to respond to your world changing thoughts.

                  by Just Bob on Wed Nov 27, 2013 at 11:13:02 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  But did you grow up there? (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    HudsonValleyMark, JesseCW, AoT

                    Not trying to give you a hard time but I grew up in Georgia and the hatred for Dr. King among a large swathe of white southerners was palpable. Perhaps you had better luck.

                    Nothing human is alien to me.

                    by WB Reeves on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 01:47:29 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Well... (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      HudsonValleyMark, WB Reeves, AoT

                      I read your diary about growing up in Georgia.

                      I was raised in western Pennsylvania, in the country. It's still very much a part of Appalachia, perhaps more so than Atlanta, Georgia. Segregation was absolute. We had separate drinking fountains. Blacks sat in the baloney in the theaters.

                      Still, somehow desegregation was less of a problem than in other places. It wasn't only the south that had problems. Boston saw some of the worst violence over busing.

                      I have lived most of my adult life south of the Mason-Dixon line, but I also spent 10+ years in the military. Aside from a few minor race riots, I think the military dealt with race much better than some cities. I could go on and tell stories about the problems I saw, but that emphasis would be a distortion. By and large, it simply worked and I was privileged to work with a few world class individuals who happened to have dark skin.

                      I'm more than a decade older than you. It stands to reason we would have experienced the 50s and 60s from a different perspective. The Brown v. Board of Education ruling was two years before you were born.

                      I don't know why anyone would assume that every southerner hated MLK. That simply isn't true. BTW, Ohio and Michigan had very strong KKK presence back in the day. Racism isn't only a southern issue.

                      I'm a Vietnam Era vet. I'm also an Erma Bombeck Era vet. When cussing me out and calling me names please indicate which vet you would like to respond to your world changing thoughts.

                      by Just Bob on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 02:56:01 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Of course it's not just a Southern issue (3+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        JesseCW, Just Bob, HudsonValleyMark

                        but there's no escaping the fact that South possesses a unique historical experience as regards racism and white supremacy. It has labored under the legacy of that history up to the present day.

                        Just to be clear, I don't assume that every Southerner hated MLK. Certainly Black Southerners did not. However, I know from personal exposure that many white Southerners did.

                        Nothing human is alien to me.

                        by WB Reeves on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 05:26:10 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Slavery was different where I lived (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          WB Reeves, HudsonValleyMark

                          I went to school with children who lived in company owned shacks. Their parents were paid in company script that was only good at the company store. They didn't have a penny to their name. Coal mining was the game. The miners' faces were only black until they cleaned up.

                          For sure, that is a different perspective and that system survived into my lifetime. There are some who revere John L. Lewis in the same sense others revere Martin Luther King, Jr.

                          Disclaimer:
                          No, I'm not saying it was the same or that one system was worse than the other. Both were horrendous. Let's not go there. I'm only telling my story. It's mine and you can't have it.

                          I'm a Vietnam Era vet. I'm also an Erma Bombeck Era vet. When cussing me out and calling me names please indicate which vet you would like to respond to your world changing thoughts.

                          by Just Bob on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 10:07:15 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Not trying to take away your experience (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Just Bob, HudsonValleyMark

                            or ignore it. That's actually my point. Experience differs because, as you point out, conditions varied depending on where you were.

                            I'm just pointing out that there was, in fact, a great deal of hostility toward MLK amongst white people. He was not universally celebrated during his lifetime as he is today. As per usual, his reduction to the status of secular saint came only after he was "safely" dead.

                            We're talking about an era when lots of white people felt perfectly comfortable laying the blame for the bombings, beatings and lynchings at his feet because he was "stirring up trouble." That self serving canard was treated as a legitimate perspective. Because I was a child during this period, no adult felt the need to guard what was said in front of me. At least not until I started speaking up.

                            BTW my Grandfather worked in a textile mill, which isn't comparable to coal mining except in terms of the tyranny practiced by the company.

                            Nothing human is alien to me.

                            by WB Reeves on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 12:07:13 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                        •  I gotta butt in here to say that it is NOT (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Just Bob

                          "unique historical experience as regards racism and white supremacy".
                           Just one easy example of Great Britain will work. I think you can look at the history of 'colonialism' regarding Great Britain in India , Australia or anywhere around the world under its control, check out all the 'Plantations' around the world .
                           It is imperialism 101, institutionalized racism while the looting of resources goes on.
                          So little has changed only now the USA is doing more of the same today.

                          No, racism is around the world you just got exposed to it in your area of life and I do know about racism, even about the KKK as I had family members in it.
                          To me it was only in the world I knew in Texas (multi-gen born & raised) until I ended up living in other areas of the Country in the late 60's.
                          Yes I met people in Boston, New York and so many other cities and towns 'up North' that reminded me of the racists I knew growing up, including some I encountered in Canada, and that was what surprised me because I really thought it was 'unique' to the area I left.

                          without the ants the rainforest dies

                          by aliasalias on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 06:33:06 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  fair enough (0+ / 0-)

                            I didn't think WB was generalizing on a global scale. I also don't think "a unique historical experience as regards X" means "the only place with X" or "the place with the most X" -- but I'm not sure there is much point in trying to sort out what is and isn't unique about the American South.

                            "I am not sure how we got here, but then, I am not really sure where we are." -Susan from 29

                            by HudsonValleyMark on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 04:07:50 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                      •  lots of variables (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Just Bob, WB Reeves

                        Probably whites in some places (on average) perceived more threat from MLK than whites in other places, and more vociferous at some times than others. The haters would tend to be more vocal than the non-haters, so people's perceptions of white attitudes toward MLK would depend a lot on the conversations they had and their assumptions about the people they hadn't talked with.

                        Nowhere near as simple as "The public hated MLK," although that really wasn't AoT's main point anyway: that was closer to "Majority support is overrated," with which I agree.

                        "I am not sure how we got here, but then, I am not really sure where we are." -Susan from 29

                        by HudsonValleyMark on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 05:53:22 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                •  He was hated in the North too, (4+ / 0-)

                  where the racism was just more genteel -- but just as real.

                  I grew up in the South, fortunately spared most of the racism I saw there, but even I had a grand time watching the fine folks of Boston viciously protest the integration of their schools.

                  Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                  by corvo on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 05:38:13 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

          •  The gay rights folks had it right (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            AoT, Just Bob, Floande, Kickemout

            all politics is local and they went that route. State by state where they had the support they made their move and won. Once the momentum got going Joe Biden was on Meet The Press endorsing marriage equality and the President finally felt it was safe enough for him to speak out. It all started on a local level. The marijuana legalization folks are following that game plane.

            I am not saying it is useless to try and change things. I think that certain tactics work and others don't and we should look at why some things work and others don't.

            When it comes to taxes, the rich and corporate regulation the fight is different because we are dealing with a better funded opponent who has all sorts of access we don't.

            I still think the public is reactionary, shallow and busy. I don't think they dig deep enough to learn why things are they way they are and what needs to be done to change things when it comes to economics, the economy and jobs.

            and why don't you own a smartphone?

            I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

            by jbou on Wed Nov 27, 2013 at 10:15:20 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I have no reason to be connected 24/7 (9+ / 0-)

              We've seen trickle down economics for over 30 years. In that time, we have elected a Democrat 4 times. It hasn't made any difference. We still have voodoo economics.

              As for the public, we/they are not well informed. That is certainly a large part of the problem. I am very pleased to see the Pope speak out on that issue. It may make a difference.

              I'm a Vietnam Era vet. I'm also an Erma Bombeck Era vet. When cussing me out and calling me names please indicate which vet you would like to respond to your world changing thoughts.

              by Just Bob on Wed Nov 27, 2013 at 10:45:29 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  I think you're not far wrong here: (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              corvo
              I still think the public is reactionary, shallow and busy. I don't think they dig deep enough to learn why things are they way they are and what needs to be done to change things when it comes to economics, the economy and jobs.
              To me, "reactionary" isn't the right word at all; "passive" would be pretty good. I like Americans, but they're not on the verge of some collective political epiphany.

              If the issue in this particular thread is whether corporations are steering the NSA and other intelligence agencies in order to monitor and repress democratic activists, I know of no evidence that they are or that they have to -- which seems to mean that I agree with you on that.

              That said, a "Thank You, Edward Snowden" campaign could be a good way to get some people thinking more about the surveillance state.

              "I am not sure how we got here, but then, I am not really sure where we are." -Susan from 29

              by HudsonValleyMark on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 04:54:28 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Civil rights folks humiliated the President (6+ / 0-)

              by calling him out in public repeatedly for his disgustingly bigoted anti gay statements.

              He "evolved" to avoid losing millions of dollars and votes when he had no other viable course open to him.  When he did, overnight, about 15 million people nationwide who were incapable of telling right from wrong on their own changed their opinions.

              "Safe enough for him to speak out"?  He'd already spoken out, saying that LGBT people shouldn't be allowed to marry because he didn't think his fucking God wanted them to.

              I have no way to tell which was the lie, and don't much care.  One or the other was.

              "I read New republic and Nation/I've learned to take every view.." P. Ochs

              by JesseCW on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 05:39:37 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

    •  Actually, I'd be far less disturbed (9+ / 0-)

      if that's all it was, Booz Hamilton spying on us and selling our info to spammers or whatever.  I'm much more disturbed by the fact that it's THE GOVERNMENT doing this, and that they are making judgments about who is friend and who is foe of the government based on their illegal spying.

      •  The government doesn't trust us... (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        AoT, Dumbo, sunbro, serendipityisabitch, Oke

        and rightfully so. If you were pulling off the shit they pull off on a daily basis you'd be scared of the general public and you'd want to be spying on them too.

        Here's the thing. I'm of the belief that protesting has become too marginalized to be effective. So there's really no reason to be scared of Occupy or the Tea Party fucks. The people the NSA should be spying on are the militia fuckers up in the woods thinking the Jews and the blacks are working together to control all the white women and money. Those crazy fucks have more guns than brains and need to be babysat.

        I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

        by jbou on Wed Nov 27, 2013 at 08:02:15 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  They were scared of occupy because (13+ / 0-)

          they knew that occupy was an anarchist organization. And because it had the feel of revolution. They also loved it because it only had the feel of revolution. The government knows well and good that some people in the woods aren't going to be a threat at all to anyone except the rest of us.

          But occupy wasn't suppose to be about protesting, it was about getting out there and staying and pissing them off in a way that no one has for decades. And people saw that. Don't lie, you saw that. We got away with what no one was ever suppose to get away with. And you know why? People all over have all these theories, but really, it was food not bombs feeding people. That and dumb luck.

          Also, if you're worried about public relations then you're bound to fail. They always win PR, always. Sometimes it takes a little longer.

          If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

          by AoT on Wed Nov 27, 2013 at 08:13:18 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  True. Even people here idolize their "must-see TV" (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            corvo, StrayCat, Words In Action, AoT

            Watching TV is a fool's game. Despite appearances, TV is all PR — the best PR works on the subconscious level.

            The reactive part of the mind laps up planted messages the rational mind doesn't even notice.

            You might as well turn on the TV and say, "Hey, PR guys hired by the 1% — here's my eyeballs, hypnotize me, please."

            Also, if you're worried about public relations then you're bound to fail. They always win PR, always. Sometimes it takes a little longer.

            The Dutch kids' chorus Kinderen voor Kinderen wishes all the world's children freedom from hunger, ignorance, and war. ♥ ♥ ♥ Forget Neo — The One is Minori Urakawa

            by lotlizard on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 12:03:18 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  And what's this "the government" thing that both (10+ / 0-)

          sides are always referring to?  Imo it's a lot more complex than that.  

          "The government" is a very blunt construct.  It includes all sorts of pieces that get lumped together, and that often disagree with each other and even work against each other.

          It's not a monolith, for good or bad.

          The spy agencies are a good example. 14 agency-level orgs at my last reading, each walled off in it's own secret world, sometimes cooperating with each other, sometimes competing with each other, sometimes even sabotaging each other.  

          All ostensibly "under" the supervision & control of those higher in the pyramid, but not always.  Each piece out for its own power, funding, mission, growth, etc, each distorting how it reports upward to enhance its own interests.  Sometimes only a little, sometimes a lot, sometimes just outright lying.

          The other side is correct that "the government is too big."  But what's too big isn't what they say, it's not so much food stamps, unemployment, teachers & schools, Social Security, Medicare, NIH, etc.  It's more like Defense, the CIA/NSA etc, DHS.

          •  I agree with you (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            AoT, serendipityisabitch, hooper

            We need to sort out what we like and don't like and what is broken and not broken and what can we fix and what can we toss out. We need to audit our government from top to bottom without destroying it in the process.

            I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

            by jbou on Wed Nov 27, 2013 at 09:56:32 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Cognitive dissonance (7+ / 0-)
      This is not about corporate control of our legislators, it's about the privatization
      Who do you think authorized the privatization, and who profits from it?

      “Vote for the party closest to you, but work for the movement you love.” ~ Thom Hartmann 6/12/13

      by ozsea1 on Wed Nov 27, 2013 at 09:12:07 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  ok (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        AoT, sunbro

        the spying itself is different then the infrastructure that was created to spy. The NSA spying on us is what Snowden is credited with pointing out. The privatization of our government has very little to do with what Snowden alerted us to. Got it?

        I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

        by jbou on Wed Nov 27, 2013 at 09:17:23 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I got it (6+ / 0-)

          As I further review the comments in this diary and your responses, I find that you entertain an opinion unsupported by evidence and facts.

          “Vote for the party closest to you, but work for the movement you love.” ~ Thom Hartmann 6/12/13

          by ozsea1 on Wed Nov 27, 2013 at 09:30:59 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  what have I said that you... (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            AoT, WB Reeves, sunbro

            can refute with facts?

            I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

            by jbou on Wed Nov 27, 2013 at 09:36:42 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  It is both possible and important to make the (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            WB Reeves, serendipityisabitch, corvo

            actual connection between these two things. You know the connections beyond what jbou is talking about, but simply dismissing what he's saying doesn't help. The privatization is different than the private spying in general terms. You can't just expect people to accept that a privatized security state will push for corporate control, you have to show that it does that. There's already evidence for that, so when people ask what the connection is we need to show that evidence, or at least discuss it. Not just say "The evidence doesn't support you."

            If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

            by AoT on Wed Nov 27, 2013 at 09:39:26 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  There is no doubt in my mind... (7+ / 0-)

      ... that Booz Allen (&/or other corporations hired by the federal government) have kept a copy of info they collected for NSA.

      These spy corporations can then turn around and sell the data to other corporations, say, for instance, to corporations trying to market their products, and use ads placed where people known to have looked at merchandise on one web site can then click on another link (or the same corporation's).

      It's a great way to spy on people and use it as a marketing tool by lots and lots and lots of corporations.  Google already does it by reading gmails and keeping track of where people search which is why they can auto-fill our search terms.

      I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

      by NonnyO on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 02:28:12 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  This is absolutely about corporate control (7+ / 0-)

      Why do you think the politicians are privatizing spying (and everything else)?   Because the corporations that own them are paying them to.  Why do you think it is impossible to cut the defense/homeland security budget?   Certainly not due to terrorism of any kind.  It is due to the fact that corporate welfare queens are firmly attached to the taxpayers teat, and they will destroy any politician who dares to take away their food stamps.

      The more government contracts (money) the corporations want, the more they pay legislators to make it so.   This is hardly rocket science.  

      What we need is a Democrat in the White House. Warren 2016

      by dkmich on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 05:27:59 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  the NSA passes info to corporations (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      StrayCat, Words In Action, AoT, corvo

      Some of their economic espionage is relatively benign, like trying to give the US advance warning of fiscal problems in other countries or bank collapses, but a lot of it has to do with maintaining competitive advantage for US defense contractors.

      Some of the most justifiable stuff the NSA admits to, like in the 90s Saudi Airlines were going to buy a big pile of jets, and so the NSA recorded everybody from Airbus and the Saudi government to get evidence of Airbus bribing people, which got Boeing the contract.

      Pretty much any time a foreign country is thinking about buying US military hardware the NSA is tapping the buyer and all the other bidders and giving that to Raytheon or whoever their preferred contractor is to help them negotiate.

      Maybe that would still happen if it was totally up to the NSA and there wasn't any corporate co-dependence involved, but it's hard to separate that from the NSA's reliance on it's contractors to lobby Congress for them.

      •  Just like Facebook, actually. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JesseCW, corvo

        Someone who put together a fb that promised to keep the info private and not "use" it for any purpose but to provide the services of, by and for the users would rock the world, I think.

        Maybe an open source project.

        Trust, but verify. - Reagan
        Vote, but Occupy. - commonmass

        When the rich have tripled their share of the income and wealth yet again, Republicans will still blame the poor and 3rd Way Democrats will still negotiate.

        by Words In Action on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 07:16:40 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Diaspora is one open source alternative (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Words In Action, corvo

          The problem is that one of the alternatives needs to get to a critical mass of users or it will never actually be an alternative. The only thing that keeps people at facebook is the number of people at facebook, nothing else.

          Honestly, in terms of business, they're a horrible investment. They spend all this money on programming that's completely pointless. They aren't getting more customers from it, they're never going to get more customers from different features, they're pretty much maxed out. But they will go down at some point.

          If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

          by AoT on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 07:41:43 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  The corporatization of the intelligence aperatus (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      corvo

      is just another cog in the gear grinding away at (and God I hate to use the expression, but...) our freedom.


      "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." - Louis Brandies

      by Pescadero Bill on Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 08:41:19 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

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