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View Diary: Updated "You can sell your desk. You don't need it." ~ Pope Francis (212 comments)

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  •  Yes. (19+ / 0-)

    We have to get beyond those who worship Mammon.

    But they won't admit that Mammon is their God. They claim to be Christians, even though all that Christ taught, they revile.

    So there's that.

    You can't convert people who are convinced they are already in the congregation, even when their beliefs are antithetical to the religion they pretend to espouse.

    If you know what I mean.

    Irony takes a worse beating from Republicans than Wile E. Coyote does from Acme. --Tara the Antisocial Social Worker

    by Youffraita on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 02:12:02 AM PST

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    •  Well...brace yourself people. (19+ / 0-)

      Good things can happen, too. Expect miracles. I haven't felt this optimistic about a public figure in a long time.

      I'm a Vietnam Era vet. I'm also an Erma Bombeck Era vet. When cussing me out and calling me names please indicate which vet you would like to respond to your world changing thoughts.

      by Just Bob on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 02:49:30 AM PST

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    •  But we can and do convert their children (3+ / 0-)

      Taking all of the Right in the US together, they are losing millions of members a year, with the old dying and a large fraction of the young not replacing them. Overall, it comes to nearly 1% of the entire US population annually, but when you compare young and old people, you can see huge differences on attitudes to religion and to all of the major political issues.

      For a start, Pew Forum reports that Millennials are 21% less likely than old people to have a specific religious affiliation, with rates falling off steadily with age. Intensity of affiliation is also way down among the young, and again falls off steadily with age. Only 28% of Millennials consider the Bible to be the literal word of God. And so on.

      Ceterem censeo, gerrymandra delenda est

      by Mokurai on Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 12:36:39 PM PST

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      •  I grew up as an older millennial Southern Baptist. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        By the time I was fifteen, I was openly wondering at the lunch table just why there was no generic 'Christian' option on the PSAT 'what do we tell interested colleges?' optional religion field.

        I'm pretty migratory now. Not in actual fact - I do tend to pick a church and stay there - but in five churches I've regularly attended in my life, no two have been in the same denomination and only two have been within the same general grouping of Christian traditions.

        And I don't see this as odd, nor have I seen any of the moves as anything like a conversion from one thing to another.

        The younger millennials seem to me to be the same or even more willing to migrate than I am.

    •  Actually, (0+ / 0-)

      Francis is addressing this issue directly in his encyclical, pointing out the need for "evangelization" of existing congregations and renewed emphasis on spiritual faith and action WITHIN the Church.  As a Jesuit, he's well able to comprehend the mental tricks that people use to pretend to themselves and others that they are following Christian principles when they're actually just pursuing self-interest.  He's already calling them out, and if he lasts a while, he might manage to put the pressure on the dishonest ones while genuinely re-converting the ones who have simply strayed in "Error" as we used to call it.  This fellow isn't just a REAL Christian, he's a Jesuit -- that means he's a SMART, Real Christian.  He could accomplish something.


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