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View Diary: Will climate change saints save the Earth? (151 comments)

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  •  Did not know about Friedman... (0+ / 0-)

    But I've heard about the guy running the X Prize foundation - http://en.wikipedia.org/...

    And I'd probably stop hanging around your comments if you actually tried to answer my questions instead of avoiding them.

    •  Since you say you've found the Philosopher's Stone (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JesseCW, BruceMcF, FrY10cK

      of alternative energy and of climate change, why don't you just go away, and look for some bigger fish to fry?

      "We could run the grid on unicorn farts, but if consumption levels remain the same, Gaia will still lose the ability to support many species, including hominids." --Michael Donnelly

      by Cassiodorus on Sat Nov 30, 2013 at 03:53:54 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  If todays humans found free, non-polluting energy, (5+ / 0-)

        they'd just use it to destroy the planet in different ways.  Climate change is not the only planet-destroying threat we face.

        Topsoil loss, the accumulation of poisons, sprawl, gmos, population & consumption, for starters.  

        We need the transformation that facing climate change requires, or we'll just kill ourselves in other ways.

        Techno-fixes are close to useless.

        •  We do need transformation. The consequences of (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Cassiodorus

          climate change will be like hitting the bottom for an alcoholic.

          muddy water can best be cleared by leaving it alone

          by veritas curat on Sat Nov 30, 2013 at 05:25:40 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Even in a solemn, reality-based thread we tip toe (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          MrJersey, ZenTrainer, claude

          around without saying FAMILY PLANNING!

          None of these human caused problems will get better without family planning and more equitable distribution of the planet's resources.

          But it's still largely taboo in the U.S. to discuss family planning and cuts to the world's most expensive weapons and surveillance systems.

          Does not bode well.

          Reaganomics noun pl: blind faith that unregulated capitalism can provide unlimited goods and services, that government is bad and it can increase revenue by decreasng revenue. Synonyms: Friedmanomics. Antonyms: common sense. Related Words: Laffer curve

          by FrY10cK on Sat Nov 30, 2013 at 06:33:45 PM PST

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          •  It's too late for that. (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Bob Guyer, FrY10cK, JesseCW, JeffW
            Even in a solemn, reality-based thread we tip toe around without saying FAMILY PLANNING!

            None of these human caused problems will get better without family planning and more equitable distribution of the planet's resources.  

            Family planning could help slow down the rate at which things get worse, but climate disaster now presses so close that family planning by itself can't get us out of it.  So many young women are now beginning their reproductive years that if every one of them decided to have a maximum of one child, the world's population will continue to go up for many years.  There simply isn't time to let enough people get old and die of natural causes to reduce the globe's population.  Disasterous global warming will be here in 50 years or less.  I expect to live another 25 years and won't be surprised to see NYC subways with ocean water in them several more times before I die.  

            .

            Changing the subject: great sigline!  

            Reaganomics noun pl: blind faith that unregulated capitalism can provide unlimited goods and services, that government is bad and it can increase revenue by decreasng revenue. Synonyms: Friedmanomics. Antonyms: common sense. Related Words: Laffer curve  

            "My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." -- Sen Carl Schurz 1872

            by Calamity Jean on Sat Nov 30, 2013 at 08:59:44 PM PST

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            •  Overshoot + climate change (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              FrY10cK, JeffW

              will reduce our population. The more we are able to hold off the consequences of overshoot with technological power the larger the size and pace of the crash. Climate change makes it even worse by rapidly deteriorating the environment that sustains human population. So we are contracting our resource base at the same time we are overshooting it.

              Love = Awareness of mutually beneficial exchange across semi-permeable boundaries. Political and economic systems either amplify or inhibit Love.

              by Bob Guyer on Sat Nov 30, 2013 at 10:22:23 PM PST

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              •  Yep. eom (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Bob Guyer, JeffW

                "My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." -- Sen Carl Schurz 1872

                by Calamity Jean on Sun Dec 01, 2013 at 12:45:32 PM PST

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                •  A sad thing to be a part of, easier not to see (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  JeffW

                  Love = Awareness of mutually beneficial exchange across semi-permeable boundaries. Political and economic systems either amplify or inhibit Love.

                  by Bob Guyer on Sun Dec 01, 2013 at 01:17:12 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Because we *can* make a transition to (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Bob Guyer

                    non-fossil-fuel sources of energy, we should make that transition.  We also need to promote family planning, but need to recognise that family planning alone will not get us out of the fix we're getting into.  But we could go to all renewable energy in fifteen or twenty years if we put our collective minds to it.  

                    We will make the transition to non-fossil-fuel sources of energy.  The choice is to keep civilization more or less intact while that's happening, and while a relative minority of today's population is killed by global warming related disasters, or, to let civilization collapse and let 80% or more of the current population of the world to die young and horribly by drowning, starvation, heatstroke and war.  

                    "My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." -- Sen Carl Schurz 1872

                    by Calamity Jean on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 09:24:27 AM PST

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                    •  Different shades of collapse from fast (0+ / 0-)

                      and poorly managed to more gradual and artfully managed is one way of looking at the the range of possible options our species has attempting to come to a reasonable accommodation with the ecological foundation of which we are an outgrowth. One way or another we will end up in a state of ecological equilibrium with our environment. A full unmanaged collapse is the worst case for our species and most of the living world we now take for granted. I agree that we should do everything we can and whatever we do now will help cushion our move back to a sustainable relationship to our world. It could be a really good downsizing I just don't see a lot of signs that the momentum and direction of our larger systems will be quickly turned.

                      If I had to guess where we will fall in terms of our range of shades of collapse I come out with us closer to the fast poorly managed collapse but not all the way to the bottom. As signs of our ecological problems become more pressing there will be a rapid flurry of adaptive actions, some will help a little, some a lot, some will have unanticipated negative affects. My kids and theirs (not yet born) will have a completely different take on things than my generation and those preceding me and their is hope in that but they will be scrambling hard to cope.

                      Love = Awareness of mutually beneficial exchange across semi-permeable boundaries. Political and economic systems either amplify or inhibit Love.

                      by Bob Guyer on Thu Dec 05, 2013 at 10:56:35 PM PST

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      •  Oh I couldn't! (0+ / 0-)

        What we have is so special...

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