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  •  So, in light of this... (3+ / 0-)
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    jbsoul, Oh Mary Oh, joanneleon

    Isn't it possible that some members here want to narrow the area of focus to certain subsets of social justice, pertaining to personal interests, while others are more global in focus? So, for example, foreign policy, militarism, international banking practices, global economy, are all appropriately part of a global social justice perspective, while a more narrow view of the definition of social justice would be far more limited, taking in a smaller part of the whole. I could see this difference in emphasis causing conflict.

    There are a lot of issues to cover, and of course people will have their interests and particular fascinations, but that doesn't mean they don't care about other areas of social justice. All of these different branches are important, but few persons have the time to take it all in equally, so of course they develop interests.

    I really don't see this as the entire cause of conflict here. I really do think the real cause is a split over the degree to which individuals support, or not, the discipline of working purely within electoral politics (which requires a willingness to completely indulge in partisanship, one team against the other, thus getting into requirements of loyalty). Those who are not content to steadfastly support the electoral system will tend to be free to engage in more criticism, while those who believe the electoral path is the only effective choice will tend to act to tamp down too much extra-partisan behavior, since they see it as defeating chances of success.

    Although there is a split between moderates and radicals, it isn't always about how "far left" or "centrist" ones sociopolitical beliefs are, but rather it is about how reformist vs revolutionary one is. And even capitalists can have a revolutionary streak.

    I've seen several individuals here list all the "far left" views they hold (some claim to be so "far left" they identify with socialism, council communism, or Marxist syndicalism), in order to establish solid progressive credentials, while still holding the view that it is sacrilege to stray too far from support of status quo electoral politics, simply out of the firm belief that too much criticizing of one's own party is tantamount to self-defeatism. Therefore, these individuals have much more subjective views of the Democratic party, since they tend to be inside looking out, no matter how far to the left their political views are thought to be. Their adherence to the electoral process makes them indistinguishable from a center-left Democrat, even if they hold more leftist views.

    And those who are more rebellious, and less trusting of the electoral system, even if rather moderate in politics, are far more willing to stray from the fold in search of alternate solutions, and they are willing to be far more openly critical, since being outside the system gives them a more objective approach, since they tend to be outside looking in.   True, these tend to be hard core leftists, but not all of them are anti-capitalists, and some are rather moderate, and thus some in the latter group may not be as far to left as some members of the former.

    So, these definitions of far left vs moderate tend to get muddled and blurry. People can be left in politics but conservative in tactics, and vice-versa.

    That's the real reason for the divide. And this explains why some who identify with the far left are lumped in with moderates, and why some more moderate individuals are lumped in with the far left. It is more about whether one views oneself as an insider to the process, or an outsider.

    "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

    by ZhenRen on Sat Nov 30, 2013 at 01:29:22 AM PST

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    •  And so... (2+ / 0-)
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      jbsoul, joanneleon

      Regarding the comic strip dude...

      He's one of the "outsiders." The rebels. And the outsiders are so geared up, due to all the conflict and site opposition over years, that they tend to circle the wagons around one of their own, and of course, the insiders to the system do the same.

      So, while the "outsiders" (to use my model) might simply be so intent in protecting their own that they don't seem to see inappropriate drawings as offensive, the insiders are likewise so intent on protecting their own they don't see war crimes being committed.

      Each side is willing to ignore bad actors in their own ranks. They simply are blinded to it. And this drives both sides mutually crazy with frustration.

      So they scream to each other in turn, "Why can't you see what is right under your nose!"

      "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

      by ZhenRen on Sat Nov 30, 2013 at 01:50:25 AM PST

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      •  And... (1+ / 0-)
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        IamGumby

        My apologies if "circle the wagons" is, unknowingly to me, a terrible reference regarding the Indian wars.

        I'd never considered this might not be appropriate, but I'm guessing it isn't at all a good phrase to use. Maybe someone can inform me about the usage.

        "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

        by ZhenRen on Sat Nov 30, 2013 at 01:57:26 AM PST

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      •  ZhenRen thank you (1+ / 0-)
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        ZhenRen

        for your thought provoking comments.  I was so busy the last couple days I wasn't here much so I wasn't fully aware of the strife.

        You're view has much merit and truth to it and I've learned from it.  I guess my observations may be based more on feelings?

        It breaks my heart to see people who should be able to feel safe here hurt and betrayed by someone who should be their friend.  Ted Rall should have respected and cared for others which is the basis of the Democratic Party I know and love.

        He should have humbly said he was sorry and asked forgiveness for hurting others.  If he can't do that he doesn't belong here or in any other loving and caring community.

        •  I've though long and hard on that... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jbsoul, poco

          and I've come to agree with you, although I understand both sides on this issue. People perceive things differently.

          The way I try to sort this out is asking myself what I would have done if I were the creator of the comic strip. It would have bothered me personally if my drawing was racially hurtful, even if that weren't my intent. I'd find myself losing sleep over it. So I'd probably change it enough so that there would be no misunderstanding, while still getting across my message. But that's me. I'm very sensitive and perceptive type of person. I'm sensitive to  nuance and subtlety.  And I care and have perhaps, in some cases, even too much empathy, so I've been told by one or two real life people.

          Seems as if this sort of thing falls on a a spectrum, just like so many other human traits.

          But there has been far too much racially inflicted pain and suffering, reaching levels so horrific it exceeds one's capacity to comprehend, on the African American community. They have endured far more than any people should ever be required to endure. So this does require a special sensitivity.

          We should err on the side of compassion.

          "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

          by ZhenRen on Sat Nov 30, 2013 at 08:51:21 AM PST

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          •  And likewise... (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Choco8, SpamNunn, jbsoul, JayRaye

            It baffles me why people who care about the offensive drawings aren't even more distraught over the extra-judicial killings from drone attacks, which have been categorized as war crimes by human rights groups.

            As well as the horrible chilling effect of prosecuting whistle blowers. One could go on and on, as long as we're discussing heartlessness.

            See what I mean?

            "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

            by ZhenRen on Sat Nov 30, 2013 at 09:02:09 AM PST

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            •  Yes I do (1+ / 0-)
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              ZhenRen

              I've thought all day about your post.  It challenged my mind and really made me examine my political philosophy in a way I never have before.

              Thank you again for your contributions to this site.  You and so many others help to maintain both a high level of intellectual discourse and of decency.

    •  Just caught your comments here. Too late to rec, (0+ / 0-)

      but they were great, FWIW.

      "Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt

      by Kombema on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 03:35:12 PM PST

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