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View Diary: Pope Goes After the Weasels (94 comments)

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  •  Pope Pius XII was not silent about the Holocaust (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MKSinSA, MadGeorgiaDem

    This is a modern myth that has no basis in history.

    •  One thing for sure. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sagesource, gffish, Nautical Knots, elwior

      Pius XII certainly did not take anything close to the action called for under the circumstances, given his supposed spiritual global primacy. He didn't even condemn the Nazis publicly, despite clear knowledge of their efforts to exterminate European Jews, let alone provide them with refuge and help -- which he was in a position to do as leader of a world-wide organization.

      The rest is just BS.

      “I’m able to fly, do what I want, essentially. I guess that’s what freedom is — no limits.” Marybeth Onyeukwu -- Brooklyn DREAMer.

      by chuco35 on Sun Dec 01, 2013 at 06:06:25 PM PST

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      •  Where are you getting your info? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        firemage, MadGeorgiaDem, Australian2

        Because it doesn't match historical fact at all.

        Besides instructing local parishes to determine how to discretely protect Jews, while openly opposing the Nazi race philosophy, the Vatican did work itself in Rome, where the Jewish Rabbi during that time praised the Pope.

        When deportations from Italy were imminent, 477 Jews were hidden in the Vatican itself and another 4,238 were protected in Roman monasteries and convents. Eighty percent of Roman Jews were saved from deportation.
        Read and confirm Wikipedia's page, which is certainly not a pro-Catholic site. It's full of information that dispels the myths you're spreading in ignorance.

        Realize, priests and bishops were going to the camps for openly opposing the Nazi regime -- many considered it martyrdom. Pope Pius XII, a tiny state surrounded by fascists, chose to work through diplomacy.


    •  He could have put a stop to it VERY quickly. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gffish, Nautical Knots, elwior, BFSkinner

      All he had to do was very loudly and very forcefully tell German Catholics that complicity with the Nazi regime was incompatible with the Catholic faith and put millions of people in the position of having to choose between loyalty to their country and loyalty to their church.  Unfortunately,  the Catholic Church has its own sorry history of anti-Semitism which created the fertile ground for Naziism to blossom and which it did not begin to repudiate until Vatican II - after Piux XII was dead.  That sordid past led to a tragic ambivalence towards the Nazi program on the part of Catholics, both the hierarchy and laity alike.

      And yes, German Protestants (Lutherans in particular) were just as guilty, but no Protestant denomination has a leader with the kind of bully pulpit the Pope has.  Anything Pius XII did to help the Jews was done quietly and behind the scenes to maintain an appearance of impartiality at a time that impartiality was emphatically not called for.  His actions were not enough, not even remotely close to being enough, and for that he rightly deserves the condemnation of history.

      •  He did (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gffish, MadGeorgiaDem, jfdunphy

        He publicly opposed Nazi racial philosophy in his very first encyclical, to be understood and obeyed by faithful Catholics.

        In Summi Pontificatus, Pius reiterated Catholic teaching against racism and antisemitism and affirmed the ethical principles of the "Revelation on Sinai". At Christmas 1942, once evidence of the industrial slaughter of the Jews had emerged, Pius XII voiced concern at the murder of "hundreds of thousands" of "faultless" people because of their "nationality or race" and intervened to attempt to block Nazi deportations of Jews in various countries.
      •  Wiki is now an authority? (0+ / 0-)
        The Pope's reaction to the Holocaust was complex and inconsistent. At times, he tried to help the Jews and was successful. But these successes only highlight the amount of influence he might have had, if he not chosen to remain silent on so many other occasions. No one knows for sure the motives behind Pius XII's actions, or lack thereof, since the Vatican archives have only been fully opened to select researchers. Historians offer many reasons why Pope Pius XII was not a stronger public advocate for the Jews: A fear of Nazi reprisals, a feeling that public speech would have no effect and might harm the Jews, the idea that private intervention could accomplish more, the anxiety that acting against the German government could provoke a schism among German Catholics, the church's traditional role of being politically neutral and the fear of the growth of communism were the Nazis to be defeated.(34) Whatever his motivation, it is hard to escape the conclusion that the Pope, like so many others in positions of power and influence, could have done more to save the Jews.
        Jewish Virtual Library

        I'll tell you what justice is. Justice is a knee in the gut from the floor on the chin at night sneaky with a knife brought up down on the magazine of a battleship sandbagged underhanded in the dark without a word of warning.

        by BFSkinner on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 03:53:47 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  No.... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gffish, Nautical Knots

      ...he yawned a lot.

      And after the war, he helped some of the guiltiest perps, such as Franz Stangl, commandant of Treblinka, escape justice.

      If he was not silent, please direct me to when he said loud and clear, "The present German government is dedicated to killing every Jew in Europe, and has already succeeded in killing millions of them."

      He knew that was going on. He mumbled and equivocated.

      In other words, he was a coward and a hypocrite.

      "They smash your face in, and say you were always ugly." (Solzhenitsyn)

      by sagesource on Sun Dec 01, 2013 at 06:21:47 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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