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View Diary: Progressive Persuasion (53 comments)

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  •  You keep thinking that (5+ / 0-)

    And I can tell you that I am positive Markos is not carrying one.

    Like me, he was offended by the depiction of Obama.

    There really is nothing more to it than that.

    I don't know why you and so many are looking for some deeper motive when none exists.

     

    •  And I was not. Does that mean that I give way? (0+ / 0-)

      I know enough about Rall's work to know that he would not intend to be racist. What the angry here are demanding is an apology for being racist, something he is not going to give them because that's not what he intended.

      I'm just not going to give way to a political "weaker brother argument."

      And there is scarcely a more effective way to jump the shark here than to give rooms for the sentiments of 1979.

      "First, we make a commonwealth of our family. Then, we make a commonwealth of families. Then, we make of ourselves a political commonwealth. We engage in the ongoing process of self-government which, first and foremost, is a creative act." - C. Pierce

      by Superskepticalman on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 07:59:04 AM PST

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      •  I'm sorry if I offended anyone (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kkkkate

        It was not my intent.

        Or, ok, I on't draw him like that for strips I post at Daily Kos.

        Or, nothing.

        3 plausible alternatives. But "I've been BANNED!!!!!" seems to me not a viable one.

        •  Having gotten a few of those messages myself... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Neuroptimalian

          It does make me think twice before I post.

          But I'm here to attempt to make conversation.

          On the other hand...

          A cartoonist like Ted Rall is not so much about conversation as biting criticism. His style is much more caustically European in that regard. The President, in that sense, has gotten off relatively lightly: Rall would draw G.W. Bush in Nazi and South American jefe uniforms surrounded by blood and dead women and children. Didn't notice anyone here disturbed by that. Someone will have to remind me if he's ever draw President Obama that way.

          I'll shut up now: got things to do this afternoon; just got back last night from traveling over the holidays.

          "First, we make a commonwealth of our family. Then, we make a commonwealth of families. Then, we make of ourselves a political commonwealth. We engage in the ongoing process of self-government which, first and foremost, is a creative act." - C. Pierce

          by Superskepticalman on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 08:12:18 AM PST

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          •  Dishing it out (0+ / 0-)

            "biting criticism" - not good at absorbing it.

            I've never much paid attention to Ted Rall.

          •  You're ignoring the context. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            dougymi, TrueBlueMajority
            Rall would draw G.W. Bush in Nazi and South American jefe uniforms surrounded by blood and dead women and children. Didn't notice anyone here disturbed by that.
            Have wealthy white dudes from Connecticut been historically oppressed in this country for 300+ years, with comparisons to Nazis and South American juntas being used as justification for denying wealthy white dudes from Connecticut their right to freedom, to vote, or to equal protection under the law?

            Because that's what depictions of African-Americans as apelike have been used for in this country historically—to portray African-Americans as subhuman brutes who weren't worthy of freedom or civil rights. By drawing President Obama in a more simian manner than he drew others, Mr. Rall's depiction was, whether intentionally or not, reminiscent of that history, to the eyes of many members of this community (including many vociferous critics of the President).

            Context matters.

            "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

            by JamesGG on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 08:30:29 AM PST

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      •  Whether he "intended to" is immaterial. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Armando, serendipityisabitch
        I know enough about Rall's work to know that he would not intend to be racist.
        This isn't about what's in Mr. Rall's heart—or, at least, it wasn't at first. (After he doubled down on it, it became a bit more about that.) It was originally about what he drew.

        And what matters about what he drew is that many African-American members of this community took offense at the portrayal, some of whom have been extremely critical of President Obama in the past and who would otherwise have been in complete agreement with Mr. Rall.

        There exists no shortage of people who have said and done offensive things without knowing that they were being offensive. Ignorance is real.

        The response of those who are committed to the struggle against racial, sexual, gender, etc. oppression, when they are told that something they have said or done is offensive along such lines, is to listen to their critics, consider whether their own privilege and/or ignorance might be blinding them to the offense they're causing, educate themselves on the issue at hand, and generally to change the way they're doing things in order to not offend those who are members of historically-oppressed groups.

        Mr. Rall's response was not to do any of that, or to even concede that those who took offense at his drawing could even possibly have a valid reason for being offended. Instead, he complained about being "censored," attacked those who were offended as disingenuous, and generally took up the attitude that this community was lucky to have his material at all and had no right to complain about it because they weren't as important as him.

        In short, whether or not his original intention was in any way racist—something that doesn't really matter—his response was not the response of someone who is actually committed to interrogating his privilege and working against racial oppression. Rather, it was the response of a prideful person who believes himself to be an authoritative voice on issues of race despite his clear ignorance, someone who thinks himself better than this community and too important to listen to critiques from others.

        "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

        by JamesGG on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 08:24:19 AM PST

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