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View Diary: Huh, so it IS a coordinated Wall Street Democrat campaign (248 comments)

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  •  Exactly why I think a 3rd party won't help (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    shoeless, Aquarius40, AoT, KingBolete, whaddaya

    What makes you think that any party large enough to make a difference won't attract attention from those willing to corrupt it?

    I'm on a mission! http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1233352/51142428#c520 Testing the new site rules.

    by blue aardvark on Tue Dec 03, 2013 at 10:45:02 AM PST

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    •  Of course, power always corrupts eventually (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      whaddaya

      But that's WHY you need to keep renewing things from time to time with new parties or factions or whatever.  That is the only way you get genuine reform.  The new faction reforms.  It eventually becomes corrupt and you begin the cycle again.  

      Instead we've been brainwashed into believing that good is never possible.  We must always choose the lesser evil.  

      •  So we have a rise and fall that looks like this (0+ / 0-)

        Assuming a left-of-Democrats 3rd Party

        • 3rd Party Rising: Democrats lose close elections to Republicans, Congress moves to the right
        • 3rd Party Ascendant: Fights the good fight against Republicans and remaining Democrats, wins some battles, still delivers some close seats to Republicans. Effect on Congress uncertain but at least some things get said we want said
        • 3rd Party Corrupted: Democrats wither away, 3rd Party becomes similar to current Democrats

        It depends on how long each phase lasts, but I see the net effect as a motion to the right.

        I'm on a mission! http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1233352/51142428#c520 Testing the new site rules.

        by blue aardvark on Tue Dec 03, 2013 at 02:34:47 PM PST

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        •  You're captive of centrist wisdom (0+ / 0-)

          assuming that the only direction the country can possibly move is to the right one way or another.

          The ideal scenario is that the 3rd Party or faction has a genuine reform agenda with populist appeal and it sells it hard yes losing some elections while it is gaining traction.  

          But in the Ascendant phase it doesn't merely win a few minor struggles against Republicans - that's centrism.  Oh, no, while it is ascendant it enacts its reform agenda.  That's how we got reforms in each previous reform cycle.  This is not only an ascendant phase, it is a realigning phase.  We don't just assume that the only direction this country can move is right.  Oh no, we assume the pendulum is ready to swing.  We're about 40 years into a rightward swing so we assume the country will soon be ready to swing back to the left and realign for a new authentically progressive reform era and we want our reform agenda ready to go.  We're not trimming our sails settling for evil.  Nope, we have some good stuff ready.  

          Eventually, that reform era becomes corrupted and in another cycle, the country will eventually swing back to the right but possibly not for 50 more years after the new reform era.  

          But the point is we need that leverage to swing that pendulum so it moves in the other direction.  We don't assume it's stuck over there on the right and can't swing back.  

          •  What I don't see is the (0+ / 0-)

            ascendency being a majority in both bodies of Congress plus holding Presidency after spotting the GOP massive majorities during the rise.

            At best you undo what the GOP did during the rise and most likely not at all - because I think the corrupters would be hard at work from the start of the rise. They are neither stupid nor resource-constrained.

            I'm on a mission! http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1233352/51142428#c520 Testing the new site rules.

            by blue aardvark on Tue Dec 03, 2013 at 07:25:57 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

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