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View Diary: Extremist Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-Moronville) has a plan: Nuke Iran (223 comments)

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  •  don't leave out as well (15+ / 0-)

    against the Vietnamese to save the French at Dien Bien Phu - Ike said no

    to wipe out the missile sites in Cuba -  JFK said no

    to relieve the siege of Khe Sanh -  LBJ said no

    what is interesting is that all three of those Presidents had war-time service

    "We didn't set out to save the world; we set out to wonder how other people are doing and to reflect on how our actions affect other people's hearts." - Pema Chodron

    by teacherken on Wed Dec 04, 2013 at 10:56:53 AM PST

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    •  unfortunately, so did Truman (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Heart of the Rockies

      when he approved the atomic bombing of Japan.

      Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

      by Loge on Wed Dec 04, 2013 at 11:32:48 AM PST

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      •  Which wasn't really a first strike (7+ / 0-)

        We'd been at war with Japan for nearly four years at that point.

        The better analogy would be to imagine the USA had an atomic bomb in the summer of 1941 and decided to drop one on Tokyo December 6 because, "hey we heard they might be planning to attack us".

      •  A lot of revisionist history on that (5+ / 0-)

        I think you would have given the go-ahead had you been in Truman's shoes. A lot of people claimed they were against it after the war was over; there's just about zero documentation that any of them let Truman know prior to August 6th, 1945.

        No one knew just how bad they would be, and the projections for casualties were high enough that they ordered hundreds of thousands of body bags.

        I'm on a mission! http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1233352/51142428#c520 Testing the new site rules.

        by blue aardvark on Wed Dec 04, 2013 at 11:46:44 AM PST

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        •  Eisenhower, according to Stephen Ambrose's ... (3+ / 0-)

          ...1983 biography of the general, spoke ahead of time against using the Bomb both to Secretary of War Stimson and to Truman.

          Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

          by Meteor Blades on Wed Dec 04, 2013 at 11:54:05 AM PST

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          •  I was aware he *claimed* he had done so (0+ / 0-)

            I haven't read Ambrose's bio, but my recollection from other sources is that Eisenhower said after the war that he had complained to Stimson - but there's nothing in writing.

            No one wants to call a hero like Ike a liar, but as I understand it we have only his word for it. And I know Truman didn't think a whole lot of Eisenhower.

            I'm on a mission! http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1233352/51142428#c520 Testing the new site rules.

            by blue aardvark on Wed Dec 04, 2013 at 11:56:48 AM PST

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          •  I found this (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Osiris, KingTag

            Opponents to the bomb - quotes

            The Eisenhower story seems to rely solely on Ike's word, nothing in writing.

            The nearest I found to an actual documented objection was someone wanting to tweak the Potsdam Declaration:

            On June 28, 1945, a memorandum written by Bard the previous day was given to Sec. of War Henry Stimson. It stated, in part:

            "Following the three-power [July 1945 Potsdam] conference emissaries from this country could contact representatives from Japan somewhere on the China Coast and make representations with regard to Russia's position [they were about to declare war on Japan] and at the same time give them some information regarding the proposed use of atomic power, together with whatever assurances the President might care to make with regard to the [retention of the] Emperor of Japan and the treatment of the Japanese nation following unconditional surrender. It seems quite possible to me that this presents the opportunity which the Japanese are looking for.

            "I don't see that we have anything in particular to lose in following such a program." He concluded the memorandum by noting, "The only way to find out is to try it out."

            And even there he wanted to use the threat of the atomic bomb.

            This book doubts Eisenhower's version of events. Evidently Stimson and Eisenhower only talked twice during Stimson's trip, and Stimson's notes on the two meetings do not record the topic of the bomb being raised at all, let alone that Eisenhower objected strongly.

            I'm on a mission! http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1233352/51142428#c520 Testing the new site rules.

            by blue aardvark on Wed Dec 04, 2013 at 12:41:38 PM PST

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        •  hmm, maybe Truman's war experience (0+ / 0-)

          made him think he would avoid invasion at all costs.

          Nonetheless, the argument for the bomb was to take away the Japanese "will to fight," so it was designed to terrorize -- and not just the Japanese but the Russians, too.  Growing up in a post-war world, I wouldn't think of the Japanese the way Truman might have, as needing to be shocked into submission and unable to surrender even if the ability to fight had been taken away thru even conventional bombing.  

          The problem i have with the atomic bomb decision wasn't the cold numerical calculation, but my belief that had Japan been European, Truman still wouldn't have done it even if he knew an invasion might cost 100,000 lives.

          Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

          by Loge on Wed Dec 04, 2013 at 12:19:43 PM PST

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          •  Would Truman have nuked Bremen? (0+ / 0-)

            I don't know ... but considering what happened to Dresden, I think he might have.

            A nuke is a terrible thing, but hundreds of bombers unloading incendiary bombs on a populated city (Dresden, Tokyo) is likewise terrible.

            I'm on a mission! http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1233352/51142428#c520 Testing the new site rules.

            by blue aardvark on Wed Dec 04, 2013 at 12:30:11 PM PST

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