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View Diary: Pearl Harbor. Conversations on the Day of Infamy, 1941 (80 comments)

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  •  True, history is complicated...but (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    207wickedgood, kurt, PrahaPartizan

    It's also pretty simple to see that from 1925-1945 the Japanese were the bad guys.  It's really that simple.

    •  Yeah. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Uh huh. Talk to navy commanders who hated the policy. They viewed the army as crazy neocons and teabaggers. The army pretty much arrested the emperor, took over govt., and forced war on the country.

      Our neocons and teabaggers pose the same risk to the world and to us.

      Would you use such a broad brush if our  bushes had succeeded with an Iranian invasion. Perhaps Russia next? Then China?

      What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

      by agnostic on Fri Dec 06, 2013 at 04:32:37 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  But Lacked the Courage to Confront (0+ / 0-)

        The commanders in the IJN might have disagreed with the direction the IJA leaders were taking the country but none of them had the courage to directly and forcefully confront them.  So Japanese leadership all through the summer and fall of 1941 performed their kabuki while they slipped off to war because they couldn't think of anything better to do.  Unfortunately, Japanese Navy leadership was dominated by Yamamoto who clearly opposed the strategic drift toward war with the US but who, as one of the best poker players in the Japanese military, could not walk away from the challenge of crafting an operational design starting the war and then implementing it to learn if it might work.  According to the thesis put forth above, WW2 was just a war game gone bad.  

        "Love the Truth, defend the Truth, speak the Truth, and hear the Truth" - Jan Hus, d.1415 CE

        by PrahaPartizan on Sat Dec 07, 2013 at 12:18:53 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Are officers not supposed to obey the orders of (0+ / 0-)

          their political superiors?

          The influence of the [executive] has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished.

          by lysias on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 04:09:33 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  What About "Suggestions?" (0+ / 0-)

            Japanese politicians were famous for giving suggestions on what they wanted to do, not explicit orders.  The Japanese military high command failed in explicitly advising their political superiors and the Emperor that they would definitely lose any war in which they engaged the US.  They never became so transparent and we know the rest of the story.

            We faced a similar problem with the American commanders who provided poor advice to their political superiors in the run up to the Iraq War.  Of course, the malice on the civilian side was demonstrated by the retribution the civilian command imposed on officers who disagreed but the military commanders did demonstrate great moral cowardice in supporting the war.  Given the way the war was fought, I suspect a pretty high amount of just outright stupidity in the American officer corps was involved too in agreeing to the initial invasion.  

            "Love the Truth, defend the Truth, speak the Truth, and hear the Truth" - Jan Hus, d.1415 CE

            by PrahaPartizan on Mon Dec 09, 2013 at 05:59:47 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Definitely to us in the West, BUT (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      nolagrl, worldlotus, RiveroftheWest

      There were a number of countries in the rest of the world that saw the Japanese as the model to imitate.

      The example I know best was in Ethiopia -- one of the few independent African countries. Some of the tiny number of college-educated intellectuals in the 1920s & early 1930s strongly endorsed this strategy & were known as Japanizers. These intellectuals saw Japan as a model of modernization that did not require adopting Western ways -- such as democracy, of which Haile Selassie was always mistrustful. The first Constitution of Ethiopia -- promulgated in 1931 -- was heavily influenced by the Japanese Meiji Constitution. There was even talk of a marriage between the two imperial families, which now seems to have been little more than just that, talk.

      Of course, in the Second Italo-Abyssinian War, Japan sided with its Axis Ally Italy, to the disappointment of not only Ethiopians, but some Japanese. I believe there was even a demonstration or two in Japan about the country's refusal to even make a statement of support for Ethiopia -- not that Japan could have done more than that.

      Anyway, as Mythatsme up thread wrote, history is often complicated.

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