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View Diary: Freedom of Religious Expression Takes Unexpected Twist in Oklahoma (58 comments)

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  •  Uh, this country was founded by Protestants, not (0+ / 0-)

    Catholics. Canon  law was despised because, simply, it was Catholic. Only colony founded by Catholics was Maryland--and that ceased to be predominantly Catholic early on. In fact, Catholics had many problems int his country. I suggest you do a bit of reading about the history of the Irish in America and how they were treated--

    And the immediate source  for our law was, as I said, British common law.  Also Roman law was originally pagan--even Constantine, while calling the Council of Nicea to codify Christianity and declare the official version of the Bible--didn't even convert until his deathbed.  

    Now if you want to argue the influence of the PROTESTANT Church--in the form of the Mayflower Compact-- on American law, you might have better luck. But if you do any reading about the  clause in the constitution which banned the religious test for publ9ic office, you'll find out that there were two groups those who opposed this truly feared: Quakers (whow ere abolitionists) and Catholics, because they were, well, Catholics.

    The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

    by irishwitch on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 03:00:07 PM PST

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    •  You're missing the point. (0+ / 0-)

      Grand juries - from canon law to English law to American law. That's a pretty direct line of influence.

      Trial by ordeal - from Germanic common law (which you cited as a primary influence, yes?) through Anglo-Saxon law to English law, where it was effectively ended through the Church's influence and was not incorporated into the nascent American system.

      In both cases, the Church's influence had a direct bearing on the nature of American law in terms of what it inherited from the sources you mentioned. OK, so it's "once removed" or "grandfathered in" instead of a direct "do it like the church" decision, but it still traces back to the Church's influence.

      Yes, there were also negative influences which were specifically avoided in American law. Yes, the Founders saw the perils of the union of church and state in both Roman and English law, and took steps to avoid it in their design. In fact, I'd say that the Church's integration into various European states (not to mention the Holy Roman Empire) was a signifcant influence on the Founders' decision to take a different path.

      Influence is every bit as much about what we choose NOT to do as it is about what we DO choose to do. Our system is not a wholesale imitation of any of its predecessors; we borrowed elements from more than a few sources.

      The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

      by wesmorgan1 on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 04:35:01 PM PST

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    •  Founded by Protestants? A bit of data... (0+ / 0-)

      ...courtesy of

      [...] there are 204 unique individuals in this group of "Founding Fathers." These are the people who did one or more of the following:

      - signed the Declaration of Independence
      - signed the Articles of Confederation
      - attended the Constitutional Convention of 1787
      - signed the Constitution of the United States of America
      - served as Senators in the First Federal Congress (1789-1791)
      - served as U.S. Representatives in the First Federal Congress [...]

      Episcopalian/Anglican        88        54.7%
      Presbyterian                30        18.6%
      Congregationalist        27        16.8%
      Quaker                          7        4.3%
      Dutch/German Reformed      6        3.7%
      Lutheran                       5        3.1%
      Catholic                          3        1.9%
      Huguenot                          3        1.9%
      Unitarian                          3        1.9%
      Methodist                          2        1.2%
      Calvinist                          1        0.6%

      Given that the Anglican church most certainly did NOT arise from the Protestant Reformation, I'm not quite sure that we can toss them in the Protestant bucket. After all, they consider themselves part of the "Western Catholic" church, even if Rome regards them as schismatic.

      The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

      by wesmorgan1 on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 04:47:34 PM PST

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      •  Most people call the ANglicanm church Protestant- (0+ / 0-)

        as opposed to Roman Catholic or Orthodox.  They certainly were NOT ruled by Rome, which YOU should know. And THREE Catholics among the lot is, as you yourself proved, was less than 2%. Like I said,m do some homework on how Catholics were treated in this countryu. BADLY,.
        Continue this argument with yourself/ I am thropugh/ You're boring and like to play word gamesl. Fine I dec;lare you the winner.

        The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

        by irishwitch on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 09:27:33 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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