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View Diary: Rand Paul: "The Most Liberal Politician In America" (289 comments)

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  •  Doesn't change the fact that he's not (8+ / 0-)

    a racist and that he's a liberal.  This is just more of the same bullshit pileon.

    I've said some ridiculous things like that before as well.  It's a shame that sometimes libertarians ARE more liberal than the Democrats who represent us, and I could give a number of examples.

    But this sets up a bullshit argument, where if I point out something where libertarians are more pro-civil rights, somebody will say, "Yeah, but they're overall worse because of this and that" and any further discourse becomes tainted.

    We've seen a lot of this in the NSA diaries, where some person will point out that Rand Paul wanted to stop the NSA from doing something, and then accuse those of us that agree with Rand Paul on THAT PARTICULAR ISSUES of being in favor of libertarian policy X, Y, and Z.

    So, not knowing the rest of the context of the Rall quote, I'll just say, think about it.  It's true.  SOMETIMES Rand Paul is more liberal than a lot of people around here on SOME issues.  That's just true.  If I wanted to engage in hyperbole, I could say he's the most liberal politician in America.  That would be hyperbole.

    But this is the rest of that statement is true:

    Whatever the motivation, Paul has become the most, perhaps the only, establishment political figure expressing a progressive vision on a host of incredibly important issues…issues that have been abandoned by the state-sanctioned Left.
    On "a host of incredibly important issues" (i.e., some, like NSA spying, like government torture, etc.) "he has become "the most, perhaps the only ESTABLISHMENT political figure..." ... Well, there are a few that have been speaking out against NSA spying, but it's a sad and shameful fact that many of the angriest complaints about NSA spying have come from right wing clowns like Sensenbrenner.

    I'm really disgusted with all this Rall bullshit.  He's not your enemy.

    •  What liberal supports a conservative? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      churchylafemme

      The worst sorts who can't see the forest for the trees.

      But you're welcome to your opinions. Would you honestly characterize yourself as someone who liked Rand Paul?

      Click the ♥ to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

      by mahakali overdrive on Sat Dec 07, 2013 at 11:44:16 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Did he endorse Paul for president? (9+ / 0-)

        If so, that should be mentioned in the diary.  All I saw was this:

        Rall posts fawningly...
        Who cares?  You know, you wouldn't bother posting this about anybody else.  This is one of those things that goes straight back to Freud's "The Prejudice of small differences," where people are more outraged by small heresies by allies than big heresies by non-allies.  A statement praising Rand Paul by anybody else wouldn't have got as much attention, but since Rall is supposed to be one of us, it's a travesty wrapped in an enigma stuffed in an eggroll.  How else to explain all this overreaction.

        For what it's worth, sometimes I feel ashamed of our own leaders that we have to find common sense in the words of somebody like Rand Paul.  This is not praise of libertarianism, though.  It's damning of the Democratic leadership that they have too little liberal backbone to embrace a position that even somebody like Rand Paul can embrace.

      •  What progressive opposes ... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gooderservice, Dumbo

        ... a valid policy position because the person who expresses the position is a conservative politician?

        The worst kind that puts loyalty to partisan factions above support for actual progressive reform.

        Support Lesbian Creative Works with Yuri anime and manga from ALC Publishing

        by BruceMcF on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 12:05:44 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  The RW was for NSA spying before they were (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mahakali overdrive, BruceMcF

      against it.

      Gee, what is the difference now?

      It's ok to spy (or do whatever) as long as the POTUS is a white republican.

      It's either ok or it isn't.

      I think that it isn't.

      nosotros no somos estúpidos

      by a2nite on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 05:52:16 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's the difference between ... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gooderservice

        ... supporting a policy position and supporting a partisan political faction.

        Support Lesbian Creative Works with Yuri anime and manga from ALC Publishing

        by BruceMcF on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 12:02:55 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  The simple answer to that question is, IT ISN'T. (0+ / 0-)

        And so the fact that Rand Paul is more against NSA spying than many liberals is a SHAME ON OUR OWN LEADERSHIP.

        The inverse of what you're saying is this: If IT ISN"T OKAY, then the fact that a libertarian is opposed to IT now and many liberals who once opposed it defend IT now, that fact tells us that our guys are now more fucked up and wrong on this than even goddam Rand Paul.

        You know, we've seen many, many variations on this in the Snowden pro-con threads, where people pointed out that Snowden may have called himself a pro-Rand Paul libertarian at some point.  The next implication is that supposedly those of us that support what Snowden did in exposing the secret and illegal actions of the US government are, by connecting the dots, all libertarians and bad people who want kill Food Stamps.  That's a bullshit argument that avoids the real issue.  It's a type of pointless ad hominem attack designed to change the subject.

    •  Yup. This closely parallels (6+ / 0-)

      some of the attacks on Glenn Greenwald for his comments about Rand Paul, used to tar and feather him as a "Libertarian".

      •  Exactly. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Choco8

        It's a cheap and offensive type of ad hominem.  Rall doesn't deserve this.  Rall's one of the good guys.

        •  Yes (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Diogenes2008, Smoh

          A good racist,misogynist guy...who shits on Nelson Mandela's grave.

          Obama 2012 http://whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com/

          by jiffypop on Sun Dec 08, 2013 at 03:32:15 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Funny how SUDDENLY (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Choco8

            he's the worst person in the whole world, considering how up until a week ago he was a hero of the left because of his cartoons.  Now he's the regular object of the community Two Minute Hate?  That doesn't make sense to me.  It suggests gross intolerance and herd thinking.

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