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View Diary: Bigotry: Hiding Behind Religion (144 comments)

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  •  I didn't avoid shopping at Hobby Lobby or (31+ / 0-)

    Mardels because they were Christian Owned.

    Mardels used to be a place I visited to buy home school supplies, because some of the stock they carried was secular not necessarily religious.

    However when I learned they gave a military discount, I asked for it. They said they couldn't give it to the spouse. It had to be to the "actual Vet" which really pissed me off. I am an actual vet, but ID Card/Sponsorship goes to the ranking member of the family who happens to be my spouse. They assumed I was not a vet because of my gender and was so ignorant of how the military ID system worked, that they further added insult with their ignorance on top of their sexism

    This happened around the same time that it became an issue that Hobby Lobby was trying to set a legal precedent to use religion as an excuse to meddle with insurance coverage and treatment options for female employees. Because everyone knows corporations are churches-are people who get to define the lives of their workers outside the workplace.

    Especially women.

    I did more than just tolerate Christianity, and have done that for a long time. But whenever I speak out, when some Christian group stands on my toes as a non-Christian, and as a woman, one would think I broke the seal to hell or something. Which is a crock of crap.

    Christianity is having issues. They are suddenly these past 40 years having to compete with other faiths for visibility in this country. They are having to compete with other philosophies as well and they are not doing it graciously.

    I have had to fight for my rights for so long as a female and as a nonChristian, that I have no energy to spare, to pretend to be nice about for even one more second.

    Gentlemen, congratulations. You're everything we've come to expect from years of government training (Zed, MIB).

    by GreenMother on Mon Dec 09, 2013 at 05:12:25 AM PST

    •  Oops--they could only give the discount to the (7+ / 0-)

      sponsor. Sorry, it's early.

      Gentlemen, congratulations. You're everything we've come to expect from years of government training (Zed, MIB).

      by GreenMother on Mon Dec 09, 2013 at 05:13:05 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I try to avoid those two stores as much (6+ / 0-)

      as possible.  And I am Christian.  Those stores were both founded in Oklahoma and are based on the evangelical right wing.  Even referring to them as Chr...n is difficult for me.

      The social justice elements of Catholic faith (and other denominations) is a much saner and loving place to be.

      I'm not liberal. I'm actually just anti-evil, OK? - Elon James White

      by Satya1 on Mon Dec 09, 2013 at 05:52:33 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I am sorry but until Catholicism stops meddling (6+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        a2nite, Amayi, OldDragon, caul, skrekk, NonnyO

        with the human and civil rights of women, their social justice stuff means squat to me.

        I shouldn't have to play second fiddle as a citizen, to any priest with our elected public servants,--a priest who was not elected to office, but for whom such doors remain open because of his gender and his job.

        Who then seek to write laws that perpetuate gender discrimination and misogyny for starters.

        Gentlemen, congratulations. You're everything we've come to expect from years of government training (Zed, MIB).

        by GreenMother on Mon Dec 09, 2013 at 06:11:48 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I have friends that set up a house (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          voicemail

          to aid people who are victims of torture by oppressive governments.  They do a lot of good.  That you want to sweep everyone who is a Christian (all 2 billion of them) into one category is a sad juxtaposition compared to your own longing for the end of discrimination.

          I'm not liberal. I'm actually just anti-evil, OK? - Elon James White

          by Satya1 on Mon Dec 09, 2013 at 08:08:12 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  That's an old argument. I point out the obvious (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            NonnyO

            transgressions of a religious institution famous for it's issues with women and therefore I must be attacking all Christians everywhere.

            And how can the domestic torture of women via domestic abuse, slut shaming or the attempts to deny women informed consent in the doctor's office be a sad comparison

            What could be more torturous than the forced adoptions of babies? A revisit to Magdelen Laundaries? Watching a spouse die of septicimia because the Church refused to allow doctors to remove a dead baby?

            The good works will be accepted more readily when this church stops sinning against women and makes amends.

            Gentlemen, congratulations. You're everything we've come to expect from years of government training (Zed, MIB).

            by GreenMother on Mon Dec 09, 2013 at 10:27:33 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Links (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              irishwitch, NonnyO, eyesoars

              The Men Behind the War on Women

              "The Catholic bishops were willing to bring down the health care bill over the issue of abortion -- even though the bill did not expand access to abortion," Rep. Rosa DeLauro (D-Conn.) said. "This was very troubling."

              The Catholic Bishops were willing to bring down the ACA if the Stupak amendment wasn't included. Wow. Social justice as long as it is not meted out equally to both genders. STUPENDOUS!

              Irish Woman allowed to die on the operating table, because the fetus she was carrying was dead and infected her entire body--reason--removing the dead fetus would be like giving an abortion Irish Central

              But dying of a systemic bacterial infection caused by a dead fetus--that isn't the same as torture.

              Bishops sued over Anti-Abortion Policies that Hamper Proper Care of Pregnant Women in Distress. NYT One lady was made to give birth to a dead/dying fetus. She was not informed of any options, nor told that they fetus was not viable--would not be viable outside of the womb. Informed Consent is for suckers apparently--and for men.

              But the doctors at Mercy Health, Ms. Means said, did not tell her that the fetus could not survive or that continuing her pregnancy was risky and did not admit her for observation.

              You would think that our doctors over here, would have learned the harsh lesson doctors are learning in Ireland--but apparently not.

              I don't wish to be concerned with what Catholics believe. But when they take their beliefs out of their church and insert it into legislation at a state or federal level, then they make it my business. And since their interpretation of the law clearly makes women 3rd class citizens, after men and fetuses, then pardon me if I have something to say about that.

              That's messed up.

              So let me repeat. The other stuff doesn't mean squat to me, because this group is an organized threat to my civil rights and my human rights. So as far as I am concerned good works on their part appear to just be an attempt to burnish an image and nothing more. Because they don't see my kind as fully human nor as deserving of full human rights and status. That makes the notion of humanitarian in terms of what this church do, relative and not absolute.

              Gentlemen, congratulations. You're everything we've come to expect from years of government training (Zed, MIB).

              by GreenMother on Mon Dec 09, 2013 at 10:42:16 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I mostly agree with you about the church (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                NonnyO, Ellid

                which is why I left at age 20--but a LOT of the people vpting for those laws, especially in the SOuth and West are not Catholics, but fundies. They let the bishops carry water for them--and back precisely the same [policies.  The truth is msot Catholic WOMEN support birth control and the right to an abortion. It's the damned right-wing idiopts like Bill D. who kiss the bishops' butts/.

                The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

                by irishwitch on Mon Dec 09, 2013 at 06:45:13 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Oh don't be thinking I don't tear the S. Christian (0+ / 0-)

                  -ists a new one whenever I get the chance, because I got a few choice words for them too.

                  Gentlemen, congratulations. You're everything we've come to expect from years of government training (Zed, MIB).

                  by GreenMother on Tue Dec 10, 2013 at 06:58:54 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Another reason... (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                GreenMother, Gentle Giant

                ... to keep a strict separation of church and state.  The Founding Fathers were aware of the recent European and American history when they met to write a constitution.  Having a government impose by force ONE religious view or practice down the throats of ALL citizens of their nation (a dictum imposed by the Catholic Church on all Catholic countries until Henry VIII declared himself head of the church in England so he could grant himself a divorce from Catherine of Aragon to marry Anne Boleyn - see the history of the five-year reign of Mary I, aka Bloody Mary, then later, starting with the Stuarts in 1603 when Elizabeth I died) is something modern Americans are not familiar with, and they don't have a clue as to why or how it happened to our ancestors on the other side of the pond..., but the Founding Fathers knew their recent history and why their parents, grandparents and gr-grandparents came to these shores, and sought to avoid the issue of a government-imposed religion entirely.

                The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries.
                  ~ James Madison, 4th President of the US, and one of the principal architects of the US Constitution.
                Now..., along comes Dumbya's executive order that set up the 'office of faith-based initiatives' that's run out of the White House - and Obama's expansion of same.  That was a rude shock considering Obama is allegedly a con law prof and should know more about why certain sections of the US Constitution were written - he should have written a countering executive order to disband that office on the grounds it gives religions a foot in the door to interfere with legislative processes and force legislators to write laws with their version(s) of religion(s) in mind.

                I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

                by NonnyO on Mon Dec 09, 2013 at 08:47:50 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

        •  Those laws these days are msotly being passed in (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Ellid

          states where fundies, not Catholics, dominate. OK is NOT exactly a very Catholic state.

          The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

          by irishwitch on Mon Dec 09, 2013 at 06:41:54 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Doesn't matter. These denominations and sects (0+ / 0-)

            that in the past, used to be at each other's throats, have set aside their differences (for now) to go after women as a team.

            You can drive right through the metro area and I can think of at least one metro Catholic church that has a faux graveyard set up by the road to bemoan aborted fetuses. I bet if I were looking I could find more.

            And then yes, we get the highway signs put up by Protestant churches addressing the same subject.

            You get it from every direction in this state. But this is where a law was passed that denied women informed consent, such as if you tested your pregnancy for Downs syndrome, if the doctor felt you might abort if the test was positive, then they might not tell you, and the law further states that your being misinformed or uninformed by medical personnel about the state of your own pregnancy could not end in a malpractice suit.

            So if you are pregnant dont come to Oklahoma. And if you are in Oklahoma and pregnant, I would advise you to go somewhere else for 9 months for care if you can.

            Gentlemen, congratulations. You're everything we've come to expect from years of government training (Zed, MIB).

            by GreenMother on Tue Dec 10, 2013 at 07:08:35 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  And I live in Oklahoma. (7+ / 0-)

        So sometimes our options are limited.

        More Michaels stores are closing, I won't spend money at Wal-Mart, and Hobby Lobby is no friend to women or religious freedoms, so increasingly it's the internet for me.

        Places like Oklahoma that only recently exploded in population depend more on big box chains than some more established, older population centers.

        Gentlemen, congratulations. You're everything we've come to expect from years of government training (Zed, MIB).

        by GreenMother on Mon Dec 09, 2013 at 06:14:01 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  On tolerating and speaking out - (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sagansong, irishwitch, NonnyO

      It's not just Christians that get virulent, I've recently had an experience with people of another religion.  It's stunning that people of many different kinds of faith do not easily tolerate those of us who choose to be free from religion.

      Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead -

      by FlamingoGrrl on Mon Dec 09, 2013 at 08:52:31 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's a mess. (4+ / 0-)

        When you get to know someone you like, religion should be something you learn about , because you want to understand them better. It shouldn't be the defining factor that determines if a friendship or friendly acquaintance can happen.

        Gentlemen, congratulations. You're everything we've come to expect from years of government training (Zed, MIB).

        by GreenMother on Mon Dec 09, 2013 at 10:56:24 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

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