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View Diary: Dan Rather on The Difference Between Him and Lara Logan: My Story Was True (178 comments)

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  •  Too bad he didn't have the right credible witness (24+ / 0-)

    Marian Knox added nothing to the conversation she was put there to confuse, rather than illuminate.
    The right person to ask would have been George Bush himself who unequivocally, without a doubt, knows if this was the suspension order that Killian allegedly handed him. he DID receive a suspension order on that day with the same information or at least records indicate he did. Is this the order that Killian by law had to hand him on that date and have him sign?
    So Far, this is the only copy of that suspension order ever to see daylight. There is one person who knows for sure whether its real or not And the one person in the whole world who knows whether it is real or not is George W Bush. Because he either got it or he didn't.

    The fact that they got civilian document examiners to look over Bush's papers is as laughable as CBS conducting their dog and pony show investigation as to whether a federal document is real or not..
    The Federal authorities have all the forensic document examiners they already need to decide whether this is a genuine order or not and they know ALL about fonts, spacing and kerning but surprisingly they've never been called on to determine this.

    Very surprising because this document purports to be a genuine military order complete with letterhead of a military unit and the full legal signature of the commander of that unit that orders an airman to take his physical. THIS IS A MILITARY DOCUMENT not a civilian one and if its phony it libels a sitting president but somehow no one ever thought to take it to the FBI or Military criminal Investigations division altho they confirm or condemn orders as real routinely.

    George W Bush knows for sure, no two ways about it whether this document is real because he knows if he ever was ordered to take his physical or not. If he wasn't its phony for sure. And if he did, he knows whether its the real one. Simple as that. GWB has NEVER denied these papers were real, just said he "didn't remember seeing them." Pretty mild language for an allegedly forged document that if forged, libels his military service.

    That's right, the military and federal authorities stood by and let civilian "experts" authenticate (or not) their own military records while they said nothing.
    Nothing there to look at folks, CBS solved it all.

    Happy just to be alive

    by exlrrp on Tue Dec 10, 2013 at 06:25:33 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  pimped (7+ / 0-)

      your series a number of times, exlrrp - thanks for all your incredibly detailed/dedicated work on the subject.

      "...You're makin' all our decisions... We have just one request of you..." - j.lennon

      by LeftOverAmerica on Tue Dec 10, 2013 at 07:03:22 PM PST

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    •  And Bush would be so sure to tell the truth/ (7+ / 0-)

      The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

      by irishwitch on Tue Dec 10, 2013 at 07:08:09 PM PST

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      •  Put him under oath and watch him sweat (7+ / 0-)

        Same for his corrupt superiors, most of which are still alive. this is what would have been done if it was anybody else. George Bush knows what his suspension order looked like there's no way for him to claim he doesn't

        If the CBS memos are really  phony----which Bush knows for sure---then George Bush would own a hefty chunk of CBS by now from the biggest libel suit in history. they libeled him if they're phony and he never even denied they were real.

        Happy just to be alive

        by exlrrp on Wed Dec 11, 2013 at 06:10:32 AM PST

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    •  Whaddyamean? (7+ / 0-)

      I am not sure what you mean by "the only copy of that suspension order ever to see daylight" See here:

      http://www.dod.mil/...

      Scroll to page 42-44. This is an official FOIA from the DoD showing orders from the Air National Guard. It is a document from the chief of the National Guard Bureau in Washington, confirming the suspension order and ordering Bush to comply.  

      The order is signed by Maj Gen. Francis Greenlief, Col. Bobby Hodges, and by Maj. Rufus Martin.

      •  Its not a suspension order (9+ / 0-)

        According to the regulation Bush was suspended under 2-28 35-13  Killian should have delivered the suspension face to face. Bush would have signed for it. This is by regulation AND SOP.

        Bush WAS suspended on Aug 1st, 1972 by Killan according to documents like this  This is a confirmation document, NOT the suspension, which, by regulation  must list the reason for the suspension.

        The signed copy of the suspension must be in his records. And when you straighten out his intentionally messed up records you find that there is none. This is beyond a doubt why Ari Fleischer walked into the press room on a Friday afternoon and dumped all the papers on the table in a  messy heap. Is tthat the way you treat a record you say youre proud of? they did not want people to understand what was in the record or to know that the suspension and other documents are missing. They have never given a coherent explanation for Bush;s suspension.

        Here's another confirmation: "Verbal orders of the Cmdr on Aug 1 1972 suspending 1Lt George W Bush....are confirmed...."   That shows the proper date and that GWB's suspension WAs delivered by Killian on Aug 1st. WHERE IS THE OPY OF THAT SUSPENSION??
        It should be dated Aug 1st, signed by both Killian and Bush. Its not there.

        Wanna see a genuine phony paper in Bush's docments?
        Here's one listing Bush as a Pilot  on 30 Apr73. ".....Pilots F102 type aircraft....."
        Theyre still listing bush as a pilot 8 MONTHS AFTER HE WAS SUSPENDED!!!.  He's still listed as Pilot on his discharge, a year later!! he's never listed as anything else!!!

        This document tells us what should have happened:
        "....This officer should have been reassigned MAy 1972 since he is no longer training in his AFSC or with his unit of assignment...."
        They kept Bush listed as a pilot for over a year after he was suspended, he's never listed as anything else. During this time he was nt assigned to any unit nor was he flying planes. Never the less they kept him listed AND PAID as a pilot for over a year (55 paid days) after he was suspended.
        They di this because he was not eligible for discharge during 1972 OR 1973.
         Bush's record indicates he was paid as a pilot, for flying,  for 55 paid days after being suspended for the only job he was qualified for. Collecting pay for which you are not entitled in the military is embezzlement.

        there is no doubt that GWB embezzled the last year of his pay. There was also other crimes like desertion and being discharged under false pretenses.
        See why they mixed up all the records before dumping them?

        Happy just to be alive

        by exlrrp on Wed Dec 11, 2013 at 06:04:53 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The Killian memo is NOT the suspension document (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Heavy Mettle, sethtriggs, Dragon5616

          Killian was required to write the suspension memo by the rules of his job---not to do so would have been dereliction of duty. Its a draft of a suspension order but its not the final one. Its not signed by either Bush r Killian as required.
          So what's the story? Killian was shoved into a spot by Bush, he was under pressure to phony the record from above.
          I think the Killian memofinal draft was written by Killian and passed up the chain of command---this was his duty as commander. Marian Knox said this was done also. But his corrupt commanders buried the real suspension order. And I think GWB never stood face to face with Killian on Aug 1st.
          the whole process was corrupt. Obviously they'd done it before with other rich men's sons. Thy wre sloppy because here wwas no over sight nd no one ever suspected it would be looked at. So they made careless mistakes, visible now.
          And all the games Rove, Bartlett and Fleisher did was to cover it up. It was brilliantly done

          Happy just to be alive

          by exlrrp on Wed Dec 11, 2013 at 06:23:22 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Just back to clarify a little bit (0+ / 0-)

            I did a diary series (3 actually) on Bush's military record. You can look way back in my past diaries and find them. I'd be glad to help if this subject ever gains traction again. I took it about as far as I could go.
            here's a good one to start with

            Most people don't know how the Killian/CBS memos fit into Bush's military record.
            Their very existence indicates corruption of the military. One of the most puzzling things about the whole thing is Bush's reaction to them.
            Bush knew right away whether they were real or not and he didn't have to check the fonts. Why? Because he's IN them, they're about him, about events that DID occur to him, that he WAS involved with and that he can't plead ignorance of therefore.
            Was he ordered to take his physical? Bush knows whether he was or not and he knows---or SHOULD know---what his suspension order looked like. There's no way he doesn't know this.
            Yet he only said, through Bartlett, that he "didn't remember seeing them before." Pretty weak response fr papers that, if frged, libel Bush's service record. Would any veteran here shrug that off?
            Here's a central fact to remember: George W Bush knows whether these memos are real, always has, yet has never said anything about them.

            this is not the suspension order, its a confirmation order. ( 'verbal orders suspending....(Bush).... are confirmed)
            What they're confirming is this which actually IS the suspension order.
            So what am I saying when I say the suspension order is missing?
            Go back and look at the first ref, the confirmation:
            "Verbal orders of the CMDR suspending 1LT George W Bush..... on Aug 1 1972 from flying status are confirmed"
            What that tells us is that SOMEONE suspended George W Bush on Aug 1 1972 and wrote a memo about it DATED Aug 1 1972 and sent it up the chain of command. Its what this document is confirming. WHERE IS THE DOCUMENT THEYRE CONFIRMING DATED AUG 1ST 1972??!! The ne that's supposed to be signed by Killian and Bush? Its required to be in the records and its not, indicting the crime of alteration of a federal document (Bush's record)

            Reading the confirmation order above and the relevant regulation under which Bush was suspended AFM 2-28 35-13 we come to understand what this document looked like.
             It HAS to have the date of Aug 1st, 1972, it would have given a reason for Bush's suspension,  It would have called for the suspension, It would have called for publication of orders suspending Bush. The confirmation document cited tells us it mentioned verbal orders.
            Just like this one does.  Of course this is not the final document that was sent up the chain of command, its not signed by either Killian or Bush, which also was required. But this does gain a certain amount of credibility by being the only suspension document that has the right date and info on it.
            So what is it and why was it kept? Its a draft of a suspension order but it wasn't the final copy. Whats the meaning?

            The regulation cited above tells us what Killian HAD to do: call for Bush's suspension on Aug 1st. The order to take the physical would have been the lead-in to this, establishing a base for further charges. This was SOP.
            Killian didn't have the authority to suspend Bush, that was for the next grade up (Bobby Hodges)  Killian was required to write a memo calling for Bush' suspension, Hodges did the actual suspension, reffed above. Hodges was required to  have an investigation. There is no evidence this was ever done, Hodges apprently quashed it. Just one of the many derelictions of duty seen here.

            You have to understand that Killian was being pressured from above to falsify ("sugarcoat") GWB's record, which he could not do without jeaporadizing his career.  (That's what this memo is about: the pressure Killian felt to falsify documents.  Killian was being pressured to rate Bush for the year 1972-73. he could not do so because Bush was not in his unit and he hadn't seen Bush all that year.
            Hodges and MArtin's game was to keep Bush on the records enough to get paid but not enough to actual show up. They kept him goldbricking (Vietnam term: ghosting) getting paid but not showing up for almost a year until they could pogue up a discharge for him.
            Thats what the records show when straightened out and that's why the BUsh administration mixed them all up and dumped them on the press tbe late on a Friday afternoon. the crimes involved are numerous and way WAY beyond "He missed a few meetings. " We're talking about desertion, embezzlement, dereliction of duty, issuing and obtaining an illegal discharge.
            GWB should be in jail so should his corrupt superiors---that what the CBS memos show. But the corruption they help illuminate is still visible without them.

            I think that the CBS memos were notes and memos that Killian kept to protect himself in case all the falsifications of documents he was asked to do came to light. he gave them to someone else to hold in case he was accused after his death.
            Its the only way they make sense

            Happy just to be alive

            by exlrrp on Thu Dec 12, 2013 at 06:31:03 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  More proof of TXNG corruption (0+ / 0-)

              Bobby Hodges and Rufus Martin kept Bush suspended in somewhat of a paperwork limbo. Bush never showed up again aftr May 1972. There's ZERO supporting proof of that but in his pay records.
              Here's some stuff that proves it.
              PDF WARNING ON REFS!!    his discharge  paper equivalent to a DD214.
              he's still listed  as a flying pilot, even, incredibly, with NONE in capital letters in his qualification box. Thats a HUGE anomaly---there's no way youre a F102 pilot with no qualifications at all.
              There's also NO decorations at all: the TAFCS and TAFMS in his medals box are not--repeat NOT---medals, they stand for, respectively Total Accumulated Federal Commisioned/Military Service. These are categories of training days and there should be a number and colon after these indicating time in category.
              Why isn't there any colon and number after them? Major Rufus Martin, personnel officer of the 147th wouldn't have typed them there without the numbers and colons--its meaningless. The for sure indication is that the numbers and colons were whited out when the remarks box was changed because they didn't match the "5 vears 4 months and 5 days." that was put later in the Remarks box.

              There's other indications of alteration on this document, I analyze this in much more detail here

              the point I want to make now that's easily visible is that  theyre still listing him (and paying him) as a pilot over one year after he'd been suspended from that very job.  He is ONLY listed as a pilot on any paper of this time, there's no indication they changed him to anything else. That was illegal as hell.

              here's another illegal, falsified document

              theyre still passing him off as a pilot despite the fact that he was suspended fro flying duty August 1st 1972. he got paid pilot's pay for being a pilot for over a year after he was suspended from flying. There is no legal way this could have happened
              ANY document you see dated after August 1st 1972 that lists George W Bush as a pilot is falsified----AND THEY ALL DO!!!  America----you've been had!

              Here's another one that illustrates: A status report of GWB dated My 73 where amazingly they have redacted his MOS: 1125D---the only MOS he ever had (see his dischargecited above)
              Why did they redct so mundane a thing? Because to have kept GWB in that status---and PAID him in that status--- was a crime and that would be dropdead proof of it. There's other dropdead proof, like his discharge.

              There's zero doubt, and its absolutely provable, that GWB was maintaimed in his rating for a year after he'd been suspended from doing that very job. there's no doubt he was paid as a pilot, he's never listed anywhere as anything else. By doing this he committed many crimes, like embezzlement when he cashed the checks he KNEW he was not entitled to. He also, indisputably obtained a fraudulent discharge that he HD to know was fraudulent His superiors commited, many many crimes, like issuing a fraudulent discharge, perjury, alteration of federal documents, dereliction of duty.
              These are ALL visible whether the CBS documents are forged or not. Just the fact that his signed suspension order is missing is a federal crime, showing alteration of documents

              So many TXANG crimes to look at, you see why the feds ran away from doing their job: authenticating federal  military documents and turning it over to CBS and their Dog and pony show.
              I
              The main question Rather should be asking is why did GWB continue to get paid as a pilot for being a pilot for over a year after he'd been suspended from flying.
              failure of Rather to even recognize that has always made me think he took a dive for money. Mary Mapes settled with CBS for an undisclosed sum.

              My dream is to see Bush's "honorable discharge" torn up because I have one too.

              Happy just to be alive

              by exlrrp on Thu Dec 12, 2013 at 08:55:56 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

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