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View Diary: Low-wage food service workers get a union at two Smithsonian museums (16 comments)

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  •  yes, union workers get more than minimum wage (0+ / 0-)

    That's generally the way it works.  (shrug)

    In the end, reality always wins.

    by Lenny Flank on Tue Dec 17, 2013 at 01:47:32 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Is there such a thing as fair pay? (0+ / 0-)

      So, if we succeed in raising everybody's pay to a level that is fair, then union workers must make more?     They must make more than workers who are not in unions?   Why can't everybody do well?

      •  (whoooosh) (0+ / 0-)

        Right over your head.

        Unions get more money because they force the owners to give them more money. Employees who are not in unions, do not have any way of forcing the owners to give them more money, so they don't get more money. Owners do not give more money to their employees out of the goodness of their heart. They give it because they are forced to. (shrug)

        But let me ask YOU a question---is there any CEO pay or corporate profit that is "enough"? At what point do they say "we make enough money--we don't need any more"?

        Or is nothing EVER "enough" for them?

        And if CEOs always make more more more more more, why shouldn't employees too?

        In the end, reality always wins.

        by Lenny Flank on Tue Dec 17, 2013 at 04:38:55 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, there is a limit (0+ / 0-)

          I don't know what the limit is , but I do think that High pay should be capped somehow.   Most preferably by high marginal tax rates and perhaps denying corporations liability protection if there is too much of a gap between the richest and poorest.  

          And, why not more, more more for everyone?  Because there is a real limit.   More pay means higher prices.    Higher prices means goods are not affordable, so people go without.   You cannot keep raising everybody up against everybody else.     There is some level of pay and profit that is fair.   Fighting to get more than fair pay may give a short term personal benefit but it is a long term loss for others.

          If the private sector worker was generally represented by unions, you would be right.  But they are not.   Unions are most successful when government money and political clout is involved.   There is a reason this victory is at the Smithsonian instead of at McDonalds.   Show me progress at McDonalds and I will cheer right along with you.

          •  sorry you don't like unions (shrug) (0+ / 0-)

            Fortunately, employess will form them anyway whether you like it or not, because they don't care what you think and they don't need your permission.  (shrug)

            But when you learn something about the history of the union movement, you will learn that the most effective union organizing was done when unions were ILLEGAL, and when Federal and state governments sent in armed troops to break strikes and bust unions.

            Which means this:

            Unions are most successful when government money and political clout is involved.  
            is just ignorant tommyrot.

            PS:  the current contract is not with the Smithsonian--the Smithsonian does not own the McDonalds in their museums.

            In the end, reality always wins.

            by Lenny Flank on Tue Dec 17, 2013 at 05:07:12 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Public unions started in the seventies (0+ / 0-)

              The union sector today cannot lay claim to the history of success of labor in the private sector.  They are entirely different scenarios.  

              One involves labor, capital and profit.  The other involves labor, taxpayers and political organizing.


              And, I said "at the Smithsonian" not "with the smithsonian".  (sigh)

              •  No, not right.... (0+ / 0-)

                I believe Wisconsin was the first to state to authorize public sector unions for state employees - dating back to the late 1950s. Public sector unions were already active on a limited scale in some cities, notably NYC.

                Wisconsin was said to have been the model for JFK when he signed the executive order legalizing federal government unions -- 1962, I believe.

                Efforts to unionize at the Post Office go back much further, but were never formally recognized by the govt till Kennedy.

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