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View Diary: Worse Than The Stasi: How The Corporate State is Turning Citizens Into Spies (300 comments)

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  •  I'm well aware of history (6+ / 0-)

    Thank you very much. That's exactly what the problem here is. I can't believe you can look at the history of this country and not worry about the government having this kind of access to everything. You think the government having more information about everyone will make minorities safer? The past isn't just the past, it's a guide to the future.

    If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

    by AoT on Tue Dec 17, 2013 at 04:28:53 PM PST

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    •  I think that a big problem in arguing with some (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Johnny Q, ApostleOfCarlin, lyvwyr101

      of these folks is that no matter what type of evidence you present, no matter how well you formulate your argument, there will never be an acknowledgment of any kind because their intention is not to argue their points in good faith.

      •  I think most of them just disagree (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        serendipityisabitch, Sylv

        And it's hard to get people to agree.

        If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

        by AoT on Tue Dec 17, 2013 at 04:39:47 PM PST

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        •  I don't mind people disagreeing; in fact, I (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lyvwyr101

          welcome it.  See my replies in this thread.  And compare that with the insults (very personal, mockery, name-calling regarding mental health, paranoia, etc.).  I know you're a smart guy and know the difference between presenting a counter-argument on any issue and resorting to name-calling and insults.

          •  seriously? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            serendipityisabitch

            Ray, if you keep complaining about being beset by trolls without identifying any, why wouldn't you expect some people to interpret that as "paranoid"? Have you never read "The Paranoid Style in American Politics"?

            I call it the paranoid style simply because no other word adequately evokes the sense of heated exaggeration, suspiciousness, and conspiratorial fantasy that I have in mind. In using the expression “paranoid style” I am not speaking in a clinical sense, but borrowing a clinical term for other purposes. I have neither the competence nor the desire to classify any figures of the past or present as certifiable lunatics. In fact, the idea of the paranoid style as a force in politics would have little contemporary relevance or historical value if it were applied only to men with profoundly disturbed minds. It is the use of paranoid modes of expression by more or less normal people that makes the phenomenon significant.
            Maybe you really don't understand how anyone could apply this term to your diaries and comments, but it isn't for lack of attempts to explain it.

            "I am not sure how we got here, but then, I am not really sure where we are." -Susan from 29

            by HudsonValleyMark on Wed Dec 18, 2013 at 06:13:58 AM PST

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            •  Love the link. Did you just Google, or had you (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              HudsonValleyMark

              bookmarked it for future reference?

              Page 1 gave me this quote, with an eerie sense that it could have come out of one of Ray's diaries:

              How can we account for our present situation unless we believe that men high in this government are concerting to deliver us to disaster? This must be the product of a great conspiracy on a scale so immense as to dwarf any previous such venture in the history of man. A conspiracy of infamy so black that, which it is finally exposed, its principals shall be forever deserving of the maledictions of all honest men. . . .
              ;)

              At least half the future I've been expecting hasn't gotten here yet. Sigh.... (Yes, there's gender bias in my name; no, I wasn't thinking about it when I signed up. My apologies.)

              by serendipityisabitch on Wed Dec 18, 2013 at 09:46:02 AM PST

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              •  I didn't know it was online (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                serendipityisabitch

                I read the collection of essays as a wee sprout -- my parents had it. That one stuck with me. I suspect that his "Anti-Intellectualism in American Life" would have been fun to reread during Palin's campaign, but I didn't get around to it.

                "I am not sure how we got here, but then, I am not really sure where we are." -Susan from 29

                by HudsonValleyMark on Wed Dec 18, 2013 at 10:26:12 AM PST

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              •  by the way (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                serendipityisabitch

                Here's a faintly interesting hack conservative critique.

                Why "hack"?

                It is incomprehensible that a supposedly competent historian should present America’s long fascination with conspiracy theory and populist paranoia themes as the exclusive property of the Right, while ignoring their massive and enduring influence among liberals and the Left.
                He didn't. Obviously.

                "I am not sure how we got here, but then, I am not really sure where we are." -Susan from 29

                by HudsonValleyMark on Wed Dec 18, 2013 at 10:34:46 AM PST

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      •  Donkeys aren't monkeys, and the NSA isnt the Stasi (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        earicicle, jiffypop, ord avg guy

        Period.

        It really doesn't matter how well you formulate your argument (and for the record, you've done yourself a great disservice by burying your argument under piles of paranoid nonsense), if you're wrong, you're wrong.

        President Obama has the amazing ability to humiliate his biggest critics, on the right and the left.

        by NoFortunateSon on Tue Dec 17, 2013 at 04:48:36 PM PST

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      •  How is comparing ANYTHING to the Stasi arguing (7+ / 0-)

        your point in good faith? Why can't you admit that this argument is 1) factually wrong; 2) not presented in good faith.

        When is the last time I even bothered to show up in one of your counterfactual, not-in-good-faith diaries? I'm so tired of the inevitable shitstorms they create. And fractures they attempt to create among longtime members who have been longtime allies on a whole host of important progressive issues.

        But I went to the DDR and the USSR as a child. We have many family friends who grew up under Soviet and Soviet-allied regimes. These direct, indelible experiences led me to study European History, get a couple of degrees in the subject, and teach it to others. 'Worst [sic] Than the Stasi' was a title I simply could not ignore when I happened to be on the site earlier today.

        You are entitled to your own opinions. [After all, this is a free country, unlike the DDR or the USSR.] But you are NOT entitled to your own facts.

        Ho'oponopono. To make things right; restore harmony; heal.

        by earicicle on Tue Dec 17, 2013 at 06:28:14 PM PST

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