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View Diary: [UPDATED] Waiting to see if I failed to prevent a death last night. (93 comments)

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  •  State laws vary. (10+ / 0-)

    Diarist in California.

    "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

    by HeyMikey on Wed Dec 18, 2013 at 05:31:26 AM PST

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    •  I can't see Cali (8+ / 0-)

      requiring an employee to put themselves at physical risk to stop someone from committing a crime. Now if the customer was over served that could be a liability and varies by state.

      ~War is Peace~Freedom is Slavery~Ignorance is Strength~ George Orwell "1984"

      by Kristina40 on Wed Dec 18, 2013 at 05:54:00 AM PST

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      •  Are you a member of the California bar? (16+ / 0-)

        With all respect, I'm a lawyer with a fairly specialized practice, concentrating on higher-level appeals. And I spend a large part of my time trying to fix cases that other lawyers have messed up, because they thought they could dabble in my area of law and do OK by using their common sense and general legal experience. And they were wrong. And their clients suffer for it.

        It's a bad idea to try to figure out the answer to a legal question without consulting not just a lawyer, but a lawyer with experience in similar cases, in the same jurisdiction.

        "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

        by HeyMikey on Wed Dec 18, 2013 at 06:25:22 AM PST

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        •  No it would just seem (14+ / 0-)

          asinine. I have been a bartender for 25 years and dealt with plenty of drunk people. I will do what I can but I am not getting myself hurt by trying to physically stop someone. Obviously the diarist should check her local laws. That's kind of common sense, no?

          ~War is Peace~Freedom is Slavery~Ignorance is Strength~ George Orwell "1984"

          by Kristina40 on Wed Dec 18, 2013 at 06:47:21 AM PST

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        •  Would deleting this diary make things worse (5+ / 0-)

          now that it's written? Perhaps now that it's here the author would be best to stand by it. I don't profess to have any formal legal knowledge but I know that deleting information that has been made public doesn't look good.

          look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

          by FishOutofWater on Wed Dec 18, 2013 at 07:04:24 AM PST

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        •  This makes me wonder whether the legal (3+ / 0-)

          profession is getting powerful beyond its mandated role.

          To paraphrase an old chestnut about doctors: Q:What is the difference between a lawyer and God?  A:God doesn't think He's a lawyer.

          Real plastic here; none of that new synthetic stuff made from chicken feathers. By the morning of 9/12/2001 the people of NYC had won the War on Terror.

          by triplepoint on Wed Dec 18, 2013 at 12:58:00 PM PST

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          •  reflections on that... (5+ / 0-)

            I've been practicing law since 1985.

            I've thought a zillion times that the best judge is NOT the smartest judge, and NOT the one with my favored political leanings, but the one who realizes he/she does not already know the answer, thus he/she needs to study the evidence and read (re-read) the applicable law.

            At the same time, if a judge did not have a strong ego--i.e., high faith in his/her own ability to render correct decisions--then the job would drive any reasonable person stark raving mad. Because many cases are tragic, no matter what decision is rendered; and many times the legal judgment makes them more tragic. A judge without high confidence in him/herself would never sleep at night.

            OTOH if a judge doesn't have some sleepless nights, then the judge is not taking the job seriously enough.

            It's a fine line to walk.

            The lawyer is not quite in the same position, but close. There is nearly always SOMETHING else the lawyer could do to make extra-sure he/she has advanced the client's case in every possible way. If the lawyer cannot draw the line somewhere--which requires trusting your own judgment--then the lawyer would be at work 24/7.

            And if you trust your own judgment too much, you become an egotistical asshole.

            Occupational hazard.

            Thank God that being most successful at many kinds of law practice requires one to be well-attuned to human nature. To win we must find the most appealing human qualities of our clients and build our advocacy on those. We must call on judges to rely on the best in their own natures--their scholarship, their idealism. The most gratifying aspects of my decades practicing law are the amazing good grace with which my clients bear their suffering, and the amazing kindnesses shown them by the people they rely on to pull them through.

            If a lawyer can focus on that, it might even offer the lawyer redemption.

            "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

            by HeyMikey on Wed Dec 18, 2013 at 01:19:31 PM PST

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            •  Thank you for your thoughtful response. (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              HeyMikey, catilinus, Kristina40

              Have you heard the one about the lawyer and the skunk?  Just kidding.  Even lawyers need an advocate in the court of public opinion.

              Real plastic here; none of that new synthetic stuff made from chicken feathers. By the morning of 9/12/2001 the people of NYC had won the War on Terror.

              by triplepoint on Wed Dec 18, 2013 at 05:41:47 PM PST

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