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View Diary: The Pope Takes a Poke at Paganism (206 comments)

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  •  I'mm surprised he didn't say "atheist" instead of (2+ / 0-)
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    enhydra lutris, Fishtroller01

    "Pagan."

    Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

    by tekno2600 on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 07:43:17 PM PST

    •  Pope Francis is an incredibly intelligent and (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sviscusi, CSPAN Junkie, JDsg

      educated Jesuit. He meant what he said, and he understood what he said.

      He was attacking hypocritical, rich Christians for being not truly Christian.  

      The concept of atheism isn't logically part of that criticism.  The people he is criticizing aren't "atheists," they're just not really Christian.

      •  No evidence, you were asked ages ago, but (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DeadHead, Fishtroller01

        can't copme up with any, just more blather.

        That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

        by enhydra lutris on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 09:07:45 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Illogical as it is, Popes have used "atheism" as (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Fishtroller01

        synonym for the terms "immoral" and "non-Christian." Popes John Paul the II and Benedict compared atheism to Nazism and did not hesitate to use the term derisively. While everyone likes to think of Francis as different, he was a top Catholic leader for many years while the church presided over such policies of bigotry. Only now is he saying something different. It's great that he now has words (though not yet deed) to suggest some change in views. But, what troubles me about Francis is that he also lived for years as a top cleric under Pinochet, in some cases serving as his personal priest. He may claim he secretly worked against some of Pinochet's desires, such as when the dictator tried to get rid of some of his more radical priests. But, he seems to be a man comfortable with working within a dictatorship and not publicly opposing it. I would feel better about him if he had left Chile and told the world what was happening. But, instead, he gets to have it both ways. He was both for and against the dictator, whenever it was convenient.

        Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

        by tekno2600 on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 11:00:38 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  He has already said (6+ / 0-)

      that he doesn't condemn atheists.  What he condemns is the worship of money. Unless money is your idol, there's nothing to take insult from.

      If you think you're too small to be effective, you've never been in the dark with a mosquito.

      by marykk on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 07:57:56 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I believe the diarist (4+ / 0-)

        is explaining that the pope was using the term 'pagan' in a negative context. That is, he was condemning/insulting Christians who worshiped money by calling them pagans.

        It certainly wasn't meant as a compliment. It is the use of pagans as a derogatory term that is insulting to pagans, much like how here on DKos we object quite strongly to people using words like 'gay' as derogatory terms, even if there is no actual homosexuality implied in context.

        Now, if it is just a transcription or translation error, that lessens the sin considerably, but it still means that the people responsible for the translation need to be more careful, if they didn't represent the Pope's words accurately.

      •  Yes, I love the little pats on the head (1+ / 0-)
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        tekno2600

        Francis and the RCC gives to atheists and homosexuals and women.  They are not AT ALL condescending!

      •  Make no mistake: Francis is no friend of atheists (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Fishtroller01

        He made an off handed comment that they could be redeemed, i.e. if a morally righteous atheist showed up for judgement by gawd, maybe she could get the big guy to let her into heaven, once she acknowledged the error or her ways. I really don't find that too ground breaking. If a gawd existed that would condemn a morally righteous atheist, such a gawd would not be worthy of worship. However, the papal spokescritter immediately and publicly contradicted his "boss's" statement, saying it was just a "homily" and not a change in doctrine. In other words, the Roman Curia still controls the Pope, rather than the Pope controlling his bureaucracy.

        Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

        by tekno2600 on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 10:23:14 AM PST

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        •  He also thinks we are really really stupid. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          tekno2600

          Of course, his comments demonstrate that he is no whiz kid on what atheism is all about!

        •  And why should he be a friend to atheists? (0+ / 0-)

          You're expecting the pope to give up his religion-he can't abandon his religion any more than you could abandon yours.

          The banks have a stranglehold on the political process. Mike Whitney

          by dfarrah on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 06:02:33 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Atheism's a religion like baldness is a hair color (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            SeaTurtle

            So, I have no religion to abandon. I also didn't ask the Pope to abandon his religion (the way I abandoned Catholicism). I would just like to make sure he doesn't use words like "atheism" and "paganism" as synonyms for "evil." If he wants a good synonym for that, I suggest he use "pedophile."

            Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

            by tekno2600 on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 06:23:25 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Bingo! (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              tekno2600, SeaTurtle

              The RCC would have never done anything about the pedophilia issue if it hadn't been for the secular legal demands of governmental institutions. And the RCC has the nerve to say that religious institutions are "above" government in terms of morality!

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