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View Diary: The Pope Takes a Poke at Paganism (206 comments)

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  •  Seeing as how... (1+ / 0-)
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    ... a few early Roman Catholic Church popes instructed the priests to 'build their churches in locations where the people were wont to go' [to worship their deities], and to 'borrow' and 'adapt' local religious practices and incorporate them into the church ritual (which is why there are so many different forms of RCC in the world), and make saints of the local deities, which means most of the RCC ritual comes straight from "Pagan" ritual and religious practices, Frankie has NO room to look down his nose at Pagans since the RCC stole so much from Pagan rituals in an attempt to gain converts.  [For which popes said/did what, look them up in The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets by Barbara G. Walker.  The book's online and can be downloaded for free.  I keep forgetting which popes said what.  The only factual detail I found wrong was Walker's entry for Elizabeth I.  My copy has been in a box for a very long time and I can't remember which box of books it is in.]

    Anyway, Frankie has the original meaning of the word Pagan wrong.  Originally, country folk were called 'pagans' to distinguish them from city-dwellers.  That's all.  No pejoratives were associated with the word.  From the Online Etymology Dictionary:

    pagan (n.) late 14c., from Late Latin paganus "pagan," in classical Latin "villager, rustic; civilian, non-combatant" noun use of adjective meaning "of the country, of a village," from pagus "country people; province, rural district," originally "district limited by markers," thus related to pangere "to fix, fasten," from PIE root *pag- "to fix" (see pact). As an adjective from early 15c.

        Religious sense is often said to derive from conservative rural adherence to the old gods after the Christianization of Roman towns and cities; but the word in this sense predates that period in Church history, and it is more likely derived from the use of paganus in Roman military jargon for "civilian, incompetent soldier," which Christians (Tertullian, c.202; Augustine) picked up with the military imagery of the early Church (e.g. milites "soldier of Christ," etc.). Applied to modern pantheists and nature-worshippers from 1908.
    [My bold.]

    Frankie is using a lot of words to say absolutely nothing of any substance since nothing whatsoever is being accomplished as a result of his pretty speeches.

    I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

    by NonnyO on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 08:04:23 PM PST

    •  Walker's work is amazing. (1+ / 0-)
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      I also came across something from Ctesias's works titled Persica that demonstrates a direct connection from paganism to catholicism. It's a little poem on Tammuz (who is mentioned in the Old Testament).

      "Trust Ye Saints, your Lord restored
      Turst Ye in your Risen Lord
      For the pains which Tammuz endured
      Our salvation have procured."

      Poor Jesus. I wonder if he ever knew he was not an original thinker. He needs to have a talk with dear old Father about that!

      •  I agree: Walker's work is amazing (0+ / 0-)

        Before Walker's book came out, the book that put me on the path to ancient religions that all came before the patriarchal ones was When God Was a Woman by Merlin Stone.  Her bibliography led to all sorts of other works that found their way to my personal library.  I often use the bibliographies of scholarly works to then read and add to my knowledge.

        Certainly, it helped to have read Stone by the time I entered college as a non-traditional student.  It put Paleolithic and Neolithic Art in certain areas of the world in perspective.  As luck would have it, the fall I began my adventure into Art History, Nat. Geo. came out with an issue with photos of Paleolithic artifacts such as spear throwers, and drawings of mammoth skull houses.  The cover had Brno Man pictured.  Of all the little figurines found all over Europe from the Paleolithic at archaeological digs, all were women until Brno Man was found.  That certainly supports the Goddess as supreme deity per Merlin Stone.

        Oddly, it also helped to have read Jean M. Auel's Earth's Children series (up to what was then out, that is).  She uses a lot of real archaeological info that her fictitious main character does or creates, all of which were found at sites on a map on the inside of the front cover of the first hardcover book.  [I can't say I find the depictions of modern sex realistic, but then I didn't live back then, so who knows?]  Certainly, the work of fiction (with descriptions of actual artifacts found) was the first I'd seen of anyone positing the possibility of Cro-Magnon and Neanderthal people mating and producing children..., and recent DNA studies have found that to have been true!

        People living in the Paleolithic and Neolithic were hardy and a lot more intelligent and creative than one might suppose otherwise.  However, woman as supreme deity would make a lot more sense to a hunter-gatherer society that had not domesticated animals and made the connection between estrus cycles, sex, and producing offspring a few months later.

        It's all quite fascinating (to me, that is).

        I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

        by NonnyO on Sun Dec 22, 2013 at 03:52:41 AM PST

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        •  Have you been following Janet Wise's (1+ / 0-)
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          diaries on here titled Punishing Eve?

          •  No... Errr, well, I read at least one (1+ / 0-)
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            But it was a while back.  I notice I have her on my Follow List, so I must have been impressed with something she wrote.

            I'm actually more interested in ancient history than I am in modern compare and contrast with the ancient world.

            The vast majority of tomes in my library are for various periods in history, often Great Britain, Celts in Europe and the British Isles, Neolithic and Viking Scandinavia, and most history ceases to be interesting after 24 March 1603 when all the idiocy over a state-mandated religion resulted in a great waste of lives and money while fighting for or against religious domination.

            That's when I turn to genealogy stuff and American history from the landing of the Mayflower forward (I'm twice descended from Edward Doty; others are in-laws or step-relatives - the population bottleneck resulted in a limited gene pool for a few years), and that's when I find these tidbits of info where my own ancestors did things of an historical nature and/or their lives were affected by events in or around their localities, so colonial New England history is a very personal topic for me.

            :-)  My library is not limited to dry history books.  I even have fiction - historical fiction by a select few authors who are good at weaving real historical events with fictitious characters.  Morgan Llywelyn is particularly good with Irish Celtic history and mythology.  The time period for the majority of historical fiction books remains the same: before 24 March 1603.  ;-)

            I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

            by NonnyO on Sun Dec 22, 2013 at 10:25:27 AM PST

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