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View Diary: A Jewish Atheist Responds to the Pope's Call for Peace (27 comments)

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  •  Completely different question (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Robert Naiman, TheDuckManCometh

    from the one in your first reply, and from the one I asked.

    What being a Jew (or an atheist) has to do with this issue is obvious.  Firstly: it's a self-identification that separates one unequivocally from the category of people one expects as a default to take the Pope seriously, or to be interested in his position on anything.  Kal vachomer, as we say.

    Secondly and more importantly: since the diary is in part about Pope calling on people of different religions to make common cause, it is actually part of the point for the diarist to identify himself as a person of a different religion who is interested in making common cause.

    "Criteria for calling someone Jewish" is an entirely separate concept from either of those, and I ask again: what has it to do with anything?

    •  The question is pretty simple, (0+ / 0-)

      I don't understand what you mean by what has it to do with anything. I asked a pretty simple question. People at DKOS make all kinds of statements "as a Jew." Like "Hello, I am a Jew and I hate Israel." So it leads me to ask, what do you mean that you are a Jew? Are you involved in the religion? In the culture and practices? Do you know anything of the history and the ways of its people? Do you know anything about Zionism or Israel? Usually, the answer is "no."  Which leads me to wonder why they identified as a Jew, or commented as a Jew. Now whether that has anything to do with anything, or anything has anything to do with anything, I can't say, except if you're not Jewish, don't speak as a Jew or for Jews, it is absurd.

      "You can die for Freedom, you just can't exercise it"

      by shmuelman on Mon Dec 30, 2013 at 08:44:13 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Speaking as a Jew: (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Robert Naiman

        1) Don't ever tell other Jews that they're not Jewish enough for you.

        2) Don't ever tell other Jews that they're not Jewish enough for you.

        Unless it directly relates to a point of halachah, which this bloody well does not, the question of whether or not another person is Jewish by your standards is irrelevant.  In a context like this one, where the significance of the diarist calling himself Jewish is primarily (if not solely) that he's identifying himself as not Christian and not from a Christian background, there is no reason whatsoever to demand a yiddishkeit background check before you take their self-identification seriously.

        If the diarist doesn't speak for you -- which, sidebar, he hasn't claimed to -- that's fine; by all means, say so.  But if you want to say so by questioning his right to call himself Jewish, then be it known that you don't speak for me either.

        •  It took me awhile to get back on this. (0+ / 0-)

          It's none of my business, nor my desire to tell Jews whether they are "Jewish enough." I am just curious when people right off the bat mention they are Jewish. I want to know why they feel it is relevant. Do they believe they are presenting a "Jewish perspective?" That it gives them some added credibility on some issues? Most of my concern revolves around two-dimensional anti-Israel sentiments. Judaism (other than "Orthodox") is dying in the US because being "self-identifying" is not enough impetus to pass it on to one's children.

          "You can die for Freedom, you just can't exercise it"

          by shmuelman on Mon Jan 06, 2014 at 08:51:02 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  You seem to have odd notions of relevance. (0+ / 0-)

            As I said earlier:

            [...] since the diary is in part about Pope calling on people of different religions to make common cause, it is actually part of the point for the diarist to identify himself as a person of a different religion who is interested in making common cause.

            [...] the significance of the diarist calling himself Jewish is primarily (if not solely) that he's identifying himself as not Christian and not from a Christian background.

            Do those not strike you as sufficiently relevant?  Not to say obvious?

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