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View Diary: Military Family Finances - Not Nearly As Healthy As the Pentagon's Budget (38 comments)

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  •  Could you delete that second picture? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DaNang65, Susan G in MN, ladybug53

    It targets a lot of progressive Democrats, as well as using the hashtags that are primarily used by Republicans to smear Democrats.

    It is also misleading. Those people did not vote on military matters alone. They voted for the budget deal to avoid another government shutdown. A lot of other people took hits, including long-term unemployed, food-stamp recipients, civilian government employees, etc. The Republicans insisted on all those cuts in order to preserve tax cuts and subsidies for the very wealthy.

    Military families can make common cause with others hurt by Republican policies, or they can be used to target progressive Democrats as shown in that second picture.

    I think your cause is better served by doing the former, and suggest you delete the second picture.

    "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everybody gets busy on the proof.” ― John Kenneth Galbraith

    by Urban Owl on Tue Dec 31, 2013 at 11:41:16 AM PST

    •  I won't. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Toymaker, allenjo, jbsoul

      It is out there and it's better we know about it than not.

      I'm a lone military wife and probably one of the few writing for a progressive website. I think it's more honest of me to bring you the bad with the good. And then to see what the community chooses to do about it. But I have yet to see any progressive viewpoints on this other than my own. But conservative websites are certainly writing a lot.

      We have an opportunity to embrace this issue as we do other labor issues but we're not. Or maybe I've missed a front page piece, another diary, or even an article from the left that you've caught on this subject?

      •  I have to admire your audacity, (0+ / 0-)

        if not your judgment, coming onto this site and posting a picture that calls for the defeat of seventeen Democratic Senators and one Republican Senator, of the few Republicans occasionally willing to break partisan ranks at that.

        I know that you don't want to agree with me about this, but you're carrying partisan water, and not the flavor generally accepted on DK.

        Just about anyone else I can think of would have gotten my HR on the tip jar for that.

        War beats down, and sows with salt, the hearts and minds of soldiers." Brecht

        by DaNang65 on Tue Dec 31, 2013 at 12:40:25 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Better to ignore it then? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          allenjo

          And pretend that these aren't that ads that will run?

          Become ostriches with our heads in the sand?

          I placed the ad at the end of the article. I didn't run it at the top on purpose. If I meant to be an ass about it, I could have written a piece that was much worse than this.  I don't even condone the ad in the diary itself.

          When did we become such babies about this kind of stuff? I've seen plenty of Dems take heat for other stuff on this website but it isn't allowed when it's this? I'm asking too much when I come for progressive support for this cause?

          •  What that picture asks for is the electoral defeat (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Susan G in MN, ladybug53

            of seventeen Democratic Senators and one occasionally moderate Republican one. That's partisan! It doesn't belong here.

            Why not make the argument for a concentrated effort for the electoral defeat of Paul Ryan, who insisted this had to go into the budget deal? He's the culprit, not the Senators who ate the shit sandwich he and Patty Murray served up.

            As pointed out above, a whole lot of folks lost their behinds to Ryan's poison pill for keeping the government open.

            War beats down, and sows with salt, the hearts and minds of soldiers." Brecht

            by DaNang65 on Tue Dec 31, 2013 at 12:59:58 PM PST

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            •  Because I'm not making the argument to get rid (0+ / 0-)

              of anyone.

              I actually have tried to get people in the movement to focus on changing the law but they are making a beeline for election time. I wish I knew how to change the process... it's why I wrote this piece. You of all people should know that I'm not advocating, I'm educating. If you can't see that, then I guess I've really failed.

              •  I think the picture makes a good point (2+ / 0-)
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                angelajean, benamery21

                I have no problem telling a senator I voted for "This requires explanation or I do not vote for you again."

                I tend to prefer Democrats to Republicans - hence why I'm here.  But I want the best Democrat on the ticket, not just  any person who calls himself one of us.

                I'm disappointed to see some of the names up there.  I also wonder how those seventeen names were chosen, given that it takes more than that to pass a budget.  Neither of those points make the image less effective.

                As another note, the feedback link seems to want people with direct ties to the military.  Mine aren't very close, so I'll resort to writing my representatives directly.

                •  Every senator up in 2014 who voted for this (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  angelajean

                  in the final bill is on that poster.  The other 4 of our seats up for re-election in 2014 are open seats.  All 55 of our senators voted for this.

                  "in the Senate the final 64-36 vote had all 55 members of the caucus (including our two independents) as well as 9 R's voting for, while 36 R's opposed.  All 100 senators are on the record on this one.  The 9 R votes were: Chambliss, Collins, Hatch, Hoeven, Isakson, R. Johnson, McCain, Murkowski, and Portman.  Only Collins is running in 2014.

                  There was one D-vote on the other side on the (54-46) motion to table.  Kay Hagan voted with every Republican.

                  On the 67-33 cloture vote:Every Democrat voted with 12 R's against 33 R's. Alexander, Blunt, and Flake voted for cloture but not passage."

                  Quoting myself (sorry) from the day it passed.  Our leadership agreed to pass this AND to give the R's cover.  Of course, we ALSO gave them plenty of votes in the House so that not all the R's had to vote for it there.

                  Iron sharpens Iron. Normal is a dryer setting. STOP illegal immigration NOW! -- Make it LEGAL. If Corporations are People--Let's draft them.

                  by benamery21 on Tue Dec 31, 2013 at 10:59:34 PM PST

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              •  And that (the "beeline for election time") is part (0+ / 0-)

                and parcel of my continuing objection to this "movement," which as you know I've characterized elsewhere, if not so directly, as astroturf.

                I was absent the day they taught mindreading at school, so I can't reliably assert what anyone else's motives are/were, but if I were the best amoral political strategist the Koch's money could buy I couldn't have framed a more elegant strategy.

                It didn't help any that Senator Murray was all too willing to walk into the trap, to force good legislators to choose between the lesser of two evils, screwing military retirees or allowing the teahadists to continue repeatedly holding the American people hostage.

                I can only hope she was trapped.

                War beats down, and sows with salt, the hearts and minds of soldiers." Brecht

                by DaNang65 on Tue Dec 31, 2013 at 03:22:32 PM PST

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                •  If the Dems would come out and talk about the (0+ / 0-)

                  process, we would know, wouldn't we?

                  And if you would like to give me another group of people to work with to change this, I'll gladly take them. But I have to take the group that's out there and do my best to push the message in the direction I (we) want it to go. Have you seen any group other than KeepYourPromise? I would love to know about them.

      •  12/11-12/25, there were 67 (0+ / 0-)

        6diaries on military budget, including yours. This issue got at least as much  attention as anything in that budget bill. DKos has not ignored this issue or military families.

        I agree that the cuts that harm military families are bad and need to be fixed, along with food stamps, unemployment insurance, civilian employee cuts, etc. I appreciate that you are giving this part of the story attention, and hope you will continue to do so.

        But you posted, without caption or comment, a picture calling for defeat of Democratic Senators who are likely to be on your side.

        All I have asked is that you remove Republican propaganda from your post. If you want to keep it, add an edit that gives your view of it. As it is, it looks like you agree with it.

        "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everybody gets busy on the proof.” ― John Kenneth Galbraith

        by Urban Owl on Tue Dec 31, 2013 at 01:11:28 PM PST

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        •  Would love to know your search terms. (0+ / 0-)

          I can find the diary by aznavy - we published the same day and I referred to his piece in one of my own. But I seem to be missing the others you're referring too. I would love to read and share them.

          •  Sorry, I was out IRL (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            angelajean

            I searched using military budget, with dates limited to 12/11-12/25, bracketing the day the budget passed.

            I did not read them all to check how many were about cuts to military families, but from the titles, at least some were. It's just not true that nobody on DK noticed, much less that nobody cares.

            "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everybody gets busy on the proof.” ― John Kenneth Galbraith

            by Urban Owl on Tue Dec 31, 2013 at 09:42:53 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I agree that a lot of people here care. (0+ / 0-)

              I just want more to care... call me greedy :)

              I get in the dumps with this kind of action, to tell you the truth. Military folks don't, for the most part, understand politics, nor do they work a mean political action. Trying to get them to even sign a petition can be like pulling teeth.

              And the folks that normally are great at political action, especially those that help with other military issues - like sexual assault or the repeal of DADT - are not as drawn to this kind of stuff. It's the defense budget, for heaven's sake. I have a long history with this because of my Dad and his health care. My emotions are overly caught up in the action. When I write for other people - like when Ashley Broadway tried to join the Spouses Club at Fort Bragg and was refused because she is a lesbian, I can write more objectively. This kind of stuff it's hard to be objective... it's our economic future I'm watching go down the drain.

              I'll search on military budget and see who else was writing but my guess the vast majority of the pieces won't be about military retirees. My normal optimism meter is turned off this time. But thanks for getting back to me.

              •  Alliances matter (0+ / 0-)

                Military retires need to make common cause with all government workers and others whose retirement is being trashed. For example, Detroit city retires get an average of less than $20k per year now, before the cuts, but nobody cares, because it's just greedy union workers in a dysfunctional city.

                Federal civilian retirees just took the COLA hit also, with current workers having to contribute more and work longer, but nobody cares about them, they're just "bureaucrats."

                If military families focus only on their own, they might win, but it misses an opportunity to join with others in the middle class who have also paid their dues and are suffering. It looks like they only care about their own and are fine with all the other cuts. The Food Stamp cuts and the UI cuts are throwing people into desparate circumstances; it's not just moving down the scale a bit.

                And targeting Democratic Senators will not help.

                "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everybody gets busy on the proof.” ― John Kenneth Galbraith

                by Urban Owl on Wed Jan 01, 2014 at 08:22:10 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

    •  BTW - those hashtags... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jbsoul

      the first is #KeepYourPromise. It was started by military families when we first caught wind that Congress was making these cuts.

      Neither it nor #NeverForget need to be Republican or right wing. Feel free to use them all you like. Don't let Republicans own words that they have no right to own.

      •  Thanks for the diary angelajean and for your (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        angelajean, jbsoul

        dedication.

        That we have a Pentagon that cannot pass an audit of all the mega billions it spends, nor has congress thus far even required it to, makes these cuts to the troops all the more horrific.

        Rep Barbara Lee keeps fighting for that but few in congress back her, sadly.

        For our fallen solders who come home from Afghanistan in a coffin to Dover, "God bless the cause for which they died."

        by allenjo on Tue Dec 31, 2013 at 02:47:59 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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