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View Diary: We have failed a moral test. History will not judge us kindly. (95 comments)

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  •  thank you for the comment.... (21+ / 0-)

    my New Years Resolution is to act at the state level, and use this issue as well as child safety.  The public health model tries for even incremental improvement,  or 2% improvement is important.  And we should pick the low hanging fruit- taking firearms from the mentally ill seems possible and frankly, a good idea.

    You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

    by murrayewv on Wed Jan 01, 2014 at 06:46:04 AM PST

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    •  In many cases we don't know who is "mentally ill" (18+ / 0-)

      and determining exactly who qualifies for the "mentally ill" label in order to deprive them of a constitutional right is going to generate a massive ship-load of litigation, and will tie up the courts for years if not decades.

      The whole focus on the "mentally ill" was a diversion tactic by the NRA and will continue to be so.

      We need across the board, mandatory background checks, we need a national database, and longer term we need gun registration similar to car registration, and we need liability insurance.

      The birchers and the paranoids will continue to raise a fuss about the slippery slope towards confiscation if we have gun registration, but ultimately we will eventually start ignoring them.

      You can't make this stuff up.

      by David54 on Wed Jan 01, 2014 at 07:21:33 AM PST

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      •  but right in plain sight..... (11+ / 0-)

        is the simple low hanging fruit that shows what we need to do, state by state, horrible example by horrible example.  We need to turn the tide to rational behavior such as you suggest.  The NRA must be revealed to be against anything simple or rational, like requiring stolen firearms be reported.  This is the tip of the iceberg, but the thing almost any rational person can agree upon.

        You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

        by murrayewv on Wed Jan 01, 2014 at 07:42:45 AM PST

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      •  I have a brother diagnosed as Paranoid Schizo. (12+ / 0-)

        In the past, he has abducted and held at knife point my mother.  Shot into a car on the highway.  Used a propane tank to blow up the boat of one his former employers.  He regularly makes threats against members of the family and others who he thinks 'deserve' to be killed after they committed some imagined offense against him.

        He is also a convicted felon and raging alcoholic.

        And he owns several guns.

        The family attempted to have him placed in involuntary conservatorship and have him placed in an outpatient treatment program.  The courts disagreed that he is a danger and continue to let him roam free.  He refuses all treatment and all medications.

        The police, informed that he had firearms in his house, refused to do anything; even though they know that as a felon it is illegal for him to possess guns.  He is a preventable tragedy waiting to happen.

        There are too many breakdowns in this story to blame it all on gun laws.  The courts failed, the mental health system failed, the police failed, and yes, the gun laws failed.

        It really is only a matter of time before he harms himself or someone else.  I hope, morbidly, that it only himself.

        •  That must be a terrible burden for your whole (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lyvwyr101, David54

          family.

          If you are serious though, don't call the police and tell them he's a felon and has guns.

          Call the District Attorney's office and tell them. You or someone in the family with first-hand knowledge of the weapons in the residence of your brother would have to be willing to give a deposition about it, to enable them to get a search warrant for the home.


          "I like paying taxes...with them, I buy Civilization"

          by Angie in WA State on Wed Jan 01, 2014 at 02:34:20 PM PST

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        •  You're obviously correct. However, my mother was (0+ / 0-)

          judged mentally ill, and she wouldn't hurt a fly (except for herself). She abhored guns, too. Luckily she spent about 95 % after her first few years as an adult in good mental health, and when she passed away she was definitely the most sane person in my family.

          There is a total breakdown (no pun intended) in our mental health care in this country, beyond the guns issue.
          Most mentally ill persons are more likely to be victims than otherwise, though.
          Many of the people we read about are not known to be insane before they commit a violent act.
          We're a long way from being able to tell in advance who's going to act out with a gun and who's not.
          To tie our paltry mental health resources up in some kind of "which" hunt would be a big mistake.
          It will also generate decades of litigation.
          Our courts are already stretched to the breaking point as well..

          In cases such as your brother's, it's obvious we should be able to act, out of concern for all parties, including your brother.

          You can't make this stuff up.

          by David54 on Thu Jan 02, 2014 at 06:28:58 AM PST

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      •  What counts as 'freedom'? (5+ / 0-)

        I would rather have the common sense gun regulations you describe than have the government get heavily involved in assessing and monitoring everyone's mental health.

        Measures like licensure, registration and insurance - basically raising the bar for gun ownership - would do a lot to weed out people who are not sick enough to be adjudicated mentally ill but are nonetheless too unstable to have guns. If there are several steps where someone has to demonstrate organization, competence and responsibility an unstable person is less likely to succeed at all of them.

        Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx

        by Joe Bob on Wed Jan 01, 2014 at 12:17:37 PM PST

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    •  From common Dreams- (0+ / 0-)

      and this does need to be the biggest priority for us.

      Not just "a" priority---it needs to be the biggest.

      http://www.commondreams.org/...

      Please follow  the link in the article.

      This needs to be our biggest priority.

      "The people who were trying to make this world worse are not taking the day off. Why should I?”---Bob Marley

      by lyvwyr101 on Wed Jan 01, 2014 at 03:52:33 PM PST

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