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View Diary: President Obama: Grant Snowden Immunity Now - ACLU Petition (103 comments)

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  •  More lies (2+ / 4-)
    If you go over to the Guardian as I suggested you will see tons of information and some of it deals with Snowden's revealing that there are secret laws.
    There are no secret laws.  There's a very good reason why you cannot point to any particular cite in the Guardian of any secret law - because there are not.

    A secret law is not possible under the US legal system.  It is that simple.

    Your claim is arrant bullshit.

    This is a diary to sign a petition, and yet you started by coming into the diary late and posting your comment right at the top as a first comment, (that is frowned on here by many), and none of your comments have had anything to do with the petition, which is the only reason for the diary.
    My comments are about why no one should sign this petition.  Therefore, pointing out that Snowden has revealed secret information about foreign spying and that many of your arguments in favor of Snowden are based not on facts but on out and out lies is totally appropriate.

    I responded to a relevant comment and responded relevantly - nothing wrong with that.

    If you want a disagreement free zone start your own web site.

    •  pardon me for butting in here... (11+ / 0-)

      but you are seriously wrong.

      any dolt that has ever thought for a minute about what law is can tell you that law is not just the plain language of a particular law as passed by a legislature.  law is also the history of interpretations of that law that have precedential value. (seriously, you could look it up.)

      when you have laws that are interpreted in secret, by a secret court, that law is secret because we cannot know the way that the court has interpreted the law.

      think about it.  where in the first amendment does it say that you can't shout "fire" in a crowded theatre?

      you may now apologize to your interlocutors.

      i'm part of the 99% - america's largest minority

      by joe shikspack on Wed Jan 01, 2014 at 06:42:16 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's a rather tortured definition of "law" (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tortmaster

        A law is what is passed by the Congress.

        Precedent, judicial interpretations, etc. are very different things, which is why we have other names for them.

        Now, I'll happily agree with anyone who says that Snowden has exposed secret interpretations of US laws and the US Constitution by the FISA Court.  That's a true statement and there are real questions about how we should balance the need for secrecy in a world full of hostile nations and trans-national groups with the need for an open and democratic government.  

        But Snowden's defenders are sacrificing accuracy for dramatic soundbites that are lies and there is no reason not to call them out on that.

        If Snowden's actions are defensible then let his defenders argue based on real facts, not lies.

        For what it's worth, I think Snowden's revelations about domestic spying are very troubling and there is a real question about how we should both protect ourselves (no one wants another 9/11) and keep a free society and how things like this can be challenged without making them public since we can't have every radical civil libertarian exposing every government surveillance program that they disagree with with impunity.

        On the other hand, Snowden's revelations about US spying on foreign countries are indefensible and clearly warrant a very long prison sentence.

    •  You have one bar of mojo, are you trying for zero? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cville townie, DeadHead

      Beelzebubs Brass Bs's Profile
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      For our fallen solders who come home from Afghanistan in a coffin to Dover, "God bless the cause for which they died."

      by allenjo on Wed Jan 01, 2014 at 06:42:29 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Reason for HR? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Beelzebubs Brass Bs

      This sure looks like HR for disagreement to me.

      "The first drawback of anger is that it destroys your inner peace; the second is that it distorts your view of reality. If you come to understand that anger is really unhelpful, you can begin to distance yourself from anger." - The Dalai Lama

      by auron renouille on Thu Jan 02, 2014 at 04:24:39 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

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