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View Diary: "Prosecutorial Gaps": The People Vs. The Justice Department (240 comments)

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  •  No, that's the central call to action of the diary (5+ / 0-)
    •  So its central to the diary (5+ / 0-)

      but everybody who disagrees with the idea of a citizen "grand jury" is deflecting from the central point of the whole diary.

      A better example of you not understanding the difference between disagreement and derailment would be hard to find.

      People think your "grand Juries" could go bad fast, and point to numerous examples.

      How would you make sure your "grand juries" don't go bad, get hijacked by crazies, or simply legitimize crazies from starting their own "grand juries"?

      And yes, the term, and the concept behind the term, is in the text I quoted, not just your title.

      "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

      by Empty Vessel on Mon Jan 06, 2014 at 03:28:42 PM PST

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      •  Think of it as the Occupy Wall Street ethos. (1+ / 0-)
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        What I mean is that OWS propagated across the country pretty fast (in 2011) and their message was based on reality, on the actual central challenge we are facing: the exploitation of the 99% by the 1%.

        I know you express concerns about this type of citizens' involvement, but I would argue that the current situation is far more dangerous and absurd than almost anything one could imagine...

        We are talking about the wholesale takeover/capture of the levers of power by undemocratic forces (corporatist cartels) engaging in massive crimes, looting, that have resulted in untold misery, on the suffering of millions of people.

        My safety valve for the process?  Here it is:

        I call on legal experts (lawyers, judges, university professors), writers, researchers, students, and average citizens to form this crowd-sourced citizens' "Grand Jury" panel tasked with producing a "People's Indictment" if it is indeed found that these government functionaries violated both, the law, and their oath of office.
        But again, we are now force to improvise because our institutions have failed us.  We need to do something; we can't just complain.
        •  It seems that your safety valve (3+ / 0-)
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          Hey338Too, fcvaguy, 6412093

          is exactly what it is you aim to destroy--the justice department that oversees the existing legal structures.  Not seeing how that can work.

          "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

          by Empty Vessel on Mon Jan 06, 2014 at 03:55:32 PM PST

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          •  The Justice Department seems to be corrupt (2+ / 0-)
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            lostinamerica, TracieLynn

            to the core, victim of a very damaging graft and conflict of interest culture.

            At least that's the perception I (and many other people) have in the face of the unprecedented lack of criminal prosecutions of Wall Street executives, who appeared to have committed massive crimes.

            •  And I agree (1+ / 0-)
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              my problem is your solution demands a safety valve, and the safety valve is the very thing that is the problem.

              You see the problem?

              "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

              by Empty Vessel on Mon Jan 06, 2014 at 04:02:36 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Here's where I'm coming from: (1+ / 0-)
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                I don't believe in the proposition that truth, morality, ethics, democracy, justice, and the rule of law are "in the eyes of the beholder."

                I think that things are either just, or unjust, truth or false, ethical or unethical, moral or immoral.

                And I think that people of good-will can join together and come to agreements on those issues.

                I have confident that the Occupy Wall Street movement can do that.

                That's my perspective, and it colors my opinions.

                I fully understand you may have a different perspective.

              •  I'm not sure I follow you (1+ / 0-)
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                A "public indictment" produced by a self-declared citizen's grand jury has no apparent enforcement mechanism. Its influence depends on its credibility.

                There have been "Citizen Juries" — on policy issues, nothing to do with shadow indictments — that were designed to be credible, although of course no one had to pay any attention to them.

                "I am not sure how we got here, but then, I am not really sure where we are." -Susan from 29

                by HudsonValleyMark on Mon Jan 06, 2014 at 04:33:37 PM PST

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    •  I support calls to action (2+ / 0-)
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      Hey338Too, serendipityisabitch

      and Ray's suggested placarding is a good idea.

      However I remember Ray's prior call for a day of action to begin last October.

      When that day came and went, and Serendipity asked Ray what were the results, Ray and others sharply attacked Serendipity for even bringing it up.

      I gave $5 to Daily Kos for my participation in Ray's October day of action, but I guess I was the only chump that honored that call for action.

      “The answer must be, I think, that beauty and grace are performed whether or not we will or sense them. The least we can do is try to be there.” ― Annie Dillard, Pilgrim at Tinker Creek

      by 6412093 on Tue Jan 07, 2014 at 12:24:51 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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