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View Diary: "Prosecutorial Gaps": The People Vs. The Justice Department (240 comments)

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  •  It seems that if you could get a majority of (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    serendipityisabitch, bwren, Hey338Too

    people you could trust to take the place of the judicial system and bring and prosecute some sort of people's indictments you could just vote in prosecutors and judges who would enforce the law we have now anyway.  If you have that many people who are aware enough of the problem and who think like you do then all of the money that the plutocrats have still can't undo majority vote.  The ultimate problem with money in politics is that the money, through advertising and propaganda sways votes.  This diary seems to presuppose enough people see through the advertising, the propaganda and the manipulations to make a difference.  If we were at that point we could just elect officials who would do the will of the people.  There's really no reason to worry about "the establishment" when you have a groundswell of majority opinion on your side.  For all of the tremendous problems we face in our governance we still have the ability to vote and win by majority.

    The problem of course is that the majority of people don't care or don't understand the problem.  So the masses of people who would be a part of this "people's court" aren't going to be there.  If however you are talking about a small group of people circumventing existing laws in order to do what they think is right--despite what the majority want, you may have a problem.  Even if you think what you are doing is what people would want if they understood things better I'm not sure you are being very democratic.  So would you expect to have majority support for your extra-legal activities or would you expect to speak for the majority in some sort of representative capacity.  From where would you derive your authority to act outside of the normal legal process?

    "Speak the TRUTH, even if your voice shakes."

    by stellaluna on Mon Jan 06, 2014 at 07:37:14 PM PST

    •  When it comes to putting real pressure on an (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DeadHead, lyvwyr101

      oppressive and corrupt system, like the one we have today in the USA, studies have found that if 3% to 5% of the population engages in a sustained resistance movement, that's all it would take to turn things around.

      While all that is happening a huge percentage of he population would have remained watching reality TV, while others who fall into poverty and homelessness would have been invisible to the system.

      •  "studies have shown" (3+ / 0-)

        Oh?

        "I am not sure how we got here, but then, I am not really sure where we are." -Susan from 29

        by HudsonValleyMark on Tue Jan 07, 2014 at 04:06:00 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  But you aren't talking about a sustained (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        serendipityisabitch, Hey338Too

        resistance movement in this diary.  You are talking about a group of 3% - 5% of people taking the law into their own hands and administering justice according to their views of justice.  And while I might agree with your version of prosecuting bankers (and I actually do), that's still putting extra-judicial justice in the hands of a small minority.  It's pretty close to vigilantism.  Do we believe in a justice system where a small minority can determine the lives of others according to their own set of beliefs?  Aren't we exchanging one tyranny for another.  A benevolent dictator is still a dictator and non-democratic rule is still tyranny.

        If this is just supposed to be our own propaganda, more of a gesture to make our point then there are other issues.  Is this the best use of time and energy in trying to bring about real change?  Who are we trying to affect?  Educating the bankers or even the Justice Department isn't likely to bring about change.  So if this is supposed to have some effect you would really need to decide what the goal is and who the target audience is.  Protest just for the sake of protest is a waste of time.  Every hour spent standing outside of a bank or the Justice Department trying to influence bankers or the judiciary could be spent trying to defeat the people who appoint the judges or prosecutors who won't prosecute.  Or trying to elect ones who will.  The beauty of the criminal justice system is that you don't have to rely on the federal government or appointments.  Local (ie. state prosecutorial officials) can investigate and prosecute as well.  Maybe we should focus on electing better local/state prosecutors who would start their own investigations and prosecutions.  Why not focus on one city even.  Charlotte, NC is a big banking city in the south.  Why not run a candidate and raise money and support for one that will prosecute wrong-doing among bankers in Charlotte.  One county is all you would have to win.  A few million votes.  Of course you will have the entire banking industry supporting the other guy.  But that is always the case.  I just don't see how "protests" are going to achieve anything.  At least as described here in this diary.

        "Speak the TRUTH, even if your voice shakes."

        by stellaluna on Tue Jan 07, 2014 at 05:04:23 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  dunno about the first part (3+ / 0-)
          ...in this diary.  You are talking about a group of 3% - 5% of people taking the law into their own hands and administering justice according to their views of justice.
          A narrow reading of the text seems to end up closer to what you say later:
          If this is just supposed to be our own propaganda, more of a gesture to make our point...
          But the diary doesn't clearly say one or the other (or anything else about how this is actually supposed to work). And the "BANSKSTERS YOU WILL PAY FOR YOUR CRIMES WE WILL NOT REST UNTIL YOU DO" does seem to mean that he won't settle for due process if it doesn't yield the result he demands.

          "I am not sure how we got here, but then, I am not really sure where we are." -Susan from 29

          by HudsonValleyMark on Tue Jan 07, 2014 at 05:34:47 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I think that is my point. This is intended as a (3+ / 0-)

            meaningless gesture to make the people doing it feel good rather than one that is expected to have any effect.  The 3-5 percent comes from Ray's answer that he only needs 3-5% for his actions to be effective.  My question that he was answering was that if he has enough people on board who recognize the problem and agree with the prosecutions why doesn't he just address the problem through the electoral process.  Apparently he doesn't have enough people for that.  Only 3-5%.  So this is nothing but a protest action.  And a not very effective one at that.

            "Speak the TRUTH, even if your voice shakes."

            by stellaluna on Tue Jan 07, 2014 at 05:51:58 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Yeah, that's what we deserve (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ray Pensador, DeadHead

      for electing Eric Holder.

      Politics means controlling the balance of economic and institutional power. Everything else is naming post offices.

      by happymisanthropy on Mon Jan 06, 2014 at 09:10:12 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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