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View Diary: Objective proof: Republicans are getting stupider (207 comments)

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  •  And here's the question (24+ / 0-)

    Why? What accounts for the change?

    The answer does not appear to be that Ken Ham suddenly found a new and better Creationist argument, nor that a massive pro-Creation PR campaign swept the nation.

    I would argue that it's a form of circling the wagons; as Democratic policies advance on the gay equality front, and Obamacare moves forward, Republicans are forming a stronger tribal identity.

    I'm on a mission! http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1233352/51142428#c520 Testing the new site rules.

    by blue aardvark on Tue Jan 07, 2014 at 11:24:39 AM PST

    •  Said better than I did upthread (6+ / 0-)

      But basically what I was trying to say.

    •  It's All About Self-Selection (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      blue aardvark, sawgrass727, TKO333

      IANADS (Demographic Statistician) but I think there's probably a high corellation in this country between positions that are extremely socially conservative and people who identify with evangelical Christianity.

      When an individual who has strong socially conservative positions selects a party, which way are they going to go?  The taint of the GOP's extreme positions on issues like choice, equality, and just about any other social issue you can think of surely gives pause to "tradtitional" conservatives (read: non-crazy).

      •  But that doesn't account for the change (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        norbalish, I love OCD, The Marti

        unless you want to argue that people changed political parties in the last 5 years based on the evolution question or something that correlates strongly with opinions on evolution.

        Which is to say, maybe the Republicans who believed in evolution in 2009 now call themselves independents. But I think there's some change of opinion taking place within the ranks as people adopt the belief system of their tribe.

        I'm on a mission! http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1233352/51142428#c520 Testing the new site rules.

        by blue aardvark on Tue Jan 07, 2014 at 11:35:05 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I Suspect That MOST (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          blue aardvark

          Of the "platform level" positions of the Republican party correlate pretty strongly with their position on evolution.

          You also don't need for people to switch parties for these percentages to change, you just need the pool that they're recruiting membership from to change (since people ostensibly "leave the party" when they die).

          I think it's easier for someone who is in the political center but disagrees with extreme social conservative positions to find a home in the Democratic party than it is for that individual to find a home in the Republican party.  

        •  The LEAST religious Republicans have moved (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          blue aardvark, johnkyrk

          toward Creationism, according to Pew analysis ... Jerry Coyne has an article about this. So yes, it's tribalism.

      •  "trad cons" aren't for anything, just against (8+ / 0-)

        "Traditional conservatives" are the people who believe that either things are just the way they should be and all change is bad, or are genuine reactionaries who believe that things were better once but have fallen away from "timeless" and "universal" values in the name of any of a galaxy of faddish socio-economic movements all invariably built upon selfishness and hubris.  They're the tweedy types who love to talk about natural law and social capital and tut-tut about "politics" because in their minds, we live in a world of self-evidence, so the debate about anything is just a bunch of people in love with the sound of their own voices.

        Modern conservatives are almost all radicals of one form or another, with the anarcho-capitalists and the theocrats/theonomists forming the two major blocs, lubricated by culture war and who both rouse the rabble by pandering to simple tribalism.

        Domestic politics is the continuation of civil war by other means.

        by Visceral on Tue Jan 07, 2014 at 12:12:38 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Point Taken (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          blue aardvark, VPofKarma, a2nite

          I should have said "traditional Republicans" vs. "traditional Conservatives."

          The Republican Party used to be a much bigger tent than it is today.

          •  these folks are the "traditional Republicans" too (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            blue aardvark, a2nite, VPofKarma

            They're the truest elitists because they think that rabble rousing (whether on the right or the left) is the worst thing anyone can do.  They affect being Classical scholars and wring their hands about the horrors of "mob rule" and view small-'d' democracy as the gateway drug where people just vote for what they want (rather than what conservatives think they ought to have) and eventually will get drunk on power and pandering and just take what they want.

            They never liked the Democratic Party because even in the days of the racist Dixiecrats, it was the Democrats who put themselves in the camp of the "common man" and his interests and aspirations.  They're people who'd prefer that the common man not know his interests and not have aspirations.

            Their position is that Republican Party is doing [mostly] the right things for [mostly] the wrong reasons because liberal influence over how people see themselves and the world is now so pervasive that it's actually managed to corrupt the right wing as well.  Thus they regard most Republican voters as grasping hysterical children who'd be right at home in the Democratic Party except their tribalistic and totemistic politics of fear and desire is thankfully still directed at the old symbols and values.

            Domestic politics is the continuation of civil war by other means.

            by Visceral on Tue Jan 07, 2014 at 12:32:25 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  Nominated as a Top Comment (0+ / 0-)

          Well written.

          I'm on a mission! http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1233352/51142428#c520 Testing the new site rules.

          by blue aardvark on Tue Jan 07, 2014 at 12:59:56 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Every time I see this report mentioned, (9+ / 0-)

      the first reason that comes to mind is that educated, intelligent people and those capable of cognizant reasoning and critical thought are leaving the Republican Party. Meanwhile, the uneducated who rely on others to inform them as to what they should think are joining the Party.

      But, the fact that this discussion has continued to come up for days now, makes wonder if that is too simplistic an answer.

      “Mitt Romney is the only person in America who looked at the way this Congress is behaving and said, ‘I want the brains behind THAT operation.’ ” — Tom Perriello

      by hungrycoyote on Tue Jan 07, 2014 at 11:33:09 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Good point. Another recent diary suggested (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      blue aardvark, The Marti, VPofKarma

      that people are realigning along these lines.  We may have picked up a good number of folks who could not stand to be associated with the ignorance pushed by the GOP and maybe we lost some folks who saw the law of intellectual curiosity across the aisle and jumped on over.

      I ain't often right, but I've never been wrong. Seldom turns out the way it does in this song.

      by mungley on Tue Jan 07, 2014 at 12:31:48 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Red state "education" may be a factor (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      blue aardvark, flevitan, The Marti

      Perhaps the states that have shown a substantial increase in the percentage who vote Republican are also states where evolution is not taught as an established scientific fact.
      The Republican vote seems to be getting increasingly concentrated in areas with some of the worst school systems - a process that is likely to spiral as Republican officials starve the schools and meddle with curriculum.

    •  Pew analysis shows that the LEAST religious (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      blue aardvark, VPofKarma, Sychotic1

      Republicans have made the move toward Creationism ... so you're exactly right.

      •  Interesting. Thanks. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        VPofKarma, Sychotic1

        It's a badge of identity.

        I'm on a mission! http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1233352/51142428#c520 Testing the new site rules.

        by blue aardvark on Tue Jan 07, 2014 at 02:59:22 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  See this article (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Sychotic1, blue aardvark

          http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/...

          In fact, however, the surveys suggest that the change in views on evolution occurred especially among the less religious segments of the GOP. Among Republicans who attend worship services monthly or less often, the share who say humans have evolved over time is down 14 percentage points, from 71% in 2009 to 57% today. Among Republicans who attend services at least weekly the share who believe in evolution has gone from 36% in 2009 to 31% today, a difference that is not statistically significant.
          •  I reject the implicit claim underlying this, that (0+ / 0-)

            measuring how often a person goes to church is a reliable metric to determine how religious they are.  It measures how important the social weekly ritual is to their religious views, not how strong their own religious beliefs are.

            •  I think there is a strong correlation among (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              jqb

              Christians, perhaps not so much for other sects.

              I'm on a mission! http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1233352/51142428#c520 Testing the new site rules.

              by blue aardvark on Wed Jan 08, 2014 at 05:37:09 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Whatever, infrequent church goers shifted toward (0+ / 0-)

              Creationism in statistically significant numbers while frequent church goers didn't, regardless of the validity of that particular inference.

              •  The point is that there are a lot of (0+ / 0-)

                people who have taken the idea of Protestanism - of rejecting the notion that your Christiantity requires the church as a middleman - to its extreme - to the point where there's lots of individual Christians with an individual "church of one".  A homeschooling bible-believing family is not necessarily a churchgoing family.

              •  Creationism is inherently a religious belief. (0+ / 0-)

                When statistics are telling you that there's a rise in the number of people who are creationist but are not churchgoers, that's not evidence of that there's more nonreligious creationists.  That's evidence that there's more non-churchgoing religious people.

                The idea of a nonreligious creationists is an oxymoron.

                •  No one said "nonreligious". (0+ / 0-)

                  It's statistically significant a shift among infrequent church goers toward Creationism ... why go so far out of your way to misrepresent the argument and attack a strawman? If these folks were already homeschooling fundies, there would have been no shift. The shift is what it's about; the shift is what warrants an explanation, but your comments offer none. The shift is consistent with ingroup evolution, as more and more member accept common tenets. But hey, believe what you want.

        •  Also epistemic closure. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          blue aardvark

          e.g., AGW denial doesn't come merely from identifying with the group, but also by consuming its inputs to the exclusion of others.

    •  Well, without looking at the crosstabs (0+ / 0-)

      I can't tell if the two D v. R samples are the same size

      Maybe MORE people consider themselves Democrats, but more of the people identifying R are religious fundies.

      "I watch Fox News for my comedy, and Comedy Central for my news." - Facebook Group

      by Sychotic1 on Tue Jan 07, 2014 at 04:57:32 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  The individuals probably haven't changed their (0+ / 0-)

      position at all.  It's probably the same people who were creationists before who are creationists now and the same people who weren't creationists before who aren't now.  I suspect that what's changed is their willingness to self-identify as Republican in the survey.

      I suspect the ones who are just slightly leaning to the Right rather than being full-on totally insane teabaggers are getting embarrassed being associated with the Republican brand.

      They still vote Republican, unfortunately, but they're starting to call themselves more "independent" when asked about their affiliation.  I guess you could call them IINOs - Independants In Name Only.

      So with this survey I suspect the change is because several of the evolution-believing Republicans have stopped calling themselves Republicans, thus skewing the numbers for the remainder who still do call themselves Republicans toward creationism.

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