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View Diary: The Reasons Edward Snowden Will Not Receive a Pardon or Executive Clemency (302 comments)

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  •  America doesn't pardon people who hurt (11+ / 0-)

    the Establishment.

    Only common criminals and the Establishment may be pardoned.

    To pardon him is to admit that the intelligence gathering is bad and that blowing whistles is good.

    Pretty simple from most any angle.

    A Pardon would signal a massive departure from our normal business of government.

    Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

    by k9disc on Thu Jan 30, 2014 at 06:17:37 AM PST

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    •  4,000 people blew the whistle on ... (0+ / 0-)

      ... the Government in 2012 using the proper channels. Yet, we're talking about Edward Snowden. I have already asked this question below, but I think it is apt:

      Do you believe that if Snowden had done everything exactly the same except he only took information related to the NSA metadata program and provided it to only one journalist, he would even have to worry about clemency or a pardon?
      Would you admit that Snowden may have harmed the country with his actions? If you were charged with the security of 300+ million people, how would you handle Manning and Snowden?

      Rand Paul is to civil liberties as the Disney Channel is to subtle and nuanced acting. On biblical prophesy: If you play the bible backwards, it says, "Paul is dead."

      by Tortmaster on Thu Jan 30, 2014 at 06:42:04 AM PST

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      •  No, I do not admit it. (19+ / 0-)

        Any criminal organization or terror group was on notice long ago that we were spying on them. Only the poor americans paying for it all were unaware of the nature and extent, especially warrantless domestic spying (which is what Snowden exposed more than anything - despite your deliberate misstatements and lies to the contrary)

        If Snowden had gone thru channels, the following would have happened;

        a. Nothing
        b. He would have been arrested
        c. No American citizen would have ever learned of the extent of illegal, unconstitutional warrantless spying by America on Americans.
        d. Congress would have never held any hearings because the NSA would have continued to say "there's no there there."

        If you think that the US was harmed, you are all wrong. Rather, by opening this chapter, we get to clean out the scum running our intel groups, shut down worthless, but intrusive spying that violates our rights, and put our country on a more constitutionally supportable path. If anything, he has helped us long term, not hurt us.

        What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

        by agnostic on Thu Jan 30, 2014 at 07:15:39 AM PST

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        •  +1000. very well said! :D nt (7+ / 0-)

          "Hope has two beautiful daughters. Their names are anger and courage; anger at the way things are, and courage to see that they do not remain the way they are." ~St Augustine "When it is dark enough, you can see the stars." ~Charles Beard

          by poligirl on Thu Jan 30, 2014 at 07:37:08 AM PST

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        •  Good argument for the jury. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Tortmaster
          If Snowden had gone thru channels, the following would have happened;

          a. Nothing
           b. He would have been arrested
           c. No American citizen would have ever learned of the extent of illegal, unconstitutional warrantless spying by America on Americans.
           d. Congress would have never held any hearings because the NSA would have continued to say "there's no there there."

          This is a story that can be told to the twelve citizens chosen for the jury.   After all, every defendant has his "he came at me first" attempt to justify his actions.  But it seems to me the last thing that Snowden or you want is for twelve unbiased New Yorkers to hear it.  

          The dossier on my DKos activities during the Bush administration will be presented on February 3, 2014.

          by Inland on Thu Jan 30, 2014 at 11:23:54 AM PST

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      •  So, out of those 4000 whistles that blew, where (9+ / 0-)

        are the changes, the ones that are important enough for the media to report on, you know the ones that affect some companies bottom line.

        I'd love to hear some good whistle blower success stories, but I don't really think they are there, and I would think if there were a decent track record on whistle blowers that the Establishment would trot them out.

        I guess Binney and a few others are media commentators at times, so there's the proof right? But didn't he kind of go through hell for that? And what did his proper channels get him? Laughed out of rooms for the most part, until Snowden.

        For many of us, this is not some johnny come lately issue, and we actually have a public historical record on these NSA whistle blowers, and it seems as if they have been vindicated and proven to be a bit conservative in their assessment of the situation from their whistle blower days and went through hell to do it.

        More whistleblower disclosures have been resolved, 1,053, than in any previous year. This has truly been a record-setting year.
        What does that mean? Where are the frog marching banksters from all of those whistles blown at the SEC? Where are the stories about the whistles that blew on Wall St last year?

        I think I'll trust Ellsberg's insights more than the raw number of resolved whistle blower cases.

        Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

        by k9disc on Thu Jan 30, 2014 at 07:44:38 AM PST

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      •  No, not at all. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dallasdoc, nota bene, Tortmaster
        Would you admit that Snowden may have harmed the country with his actions?

        Dallasdoc: "Snowden is the natural successor to Osama bin Laden as the most consequential person in the world, as his actions have the potential to undo those taken in response to Osama."

        by gooderservice on Thu Jan 30, 2014 at 12:56:41 PM PST

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