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View Diary: The Reasons Edward Snowden Will Not Receive a Pardon or Executive Clemency (302 comments)

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  •  Sure is. Know what it says? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tortmaster

    It says you're wrong.

    The dossier on my DKos activities during the Bush administration will be presented on February 3, 2014.

    by Inland on Thu Jan 30, 2014 at 12:55:42 PM PST

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    •  Katz v. United States (4+ / 0-)

      The information itself is protected, not just physical record of it. There's an expectation of privacy when you make a phone call.

      Why do you love Big Brother so much anyway? Honestly, I know hardly anyone who would defend the NSA programs. Why do you?

      Forget for a second about the legality of it... Do you think it SHOULD be legal?

      If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

      by HairyTrueMan on Thu Jan 30, 2014 at 01:02:51 PM PST

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      •  Already addressed it. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Hey338Too, JackND, Tortmaster

        Only information in which you have a "reasonable expectation of privacy" is protected.  

        And in fact, it's an open question whether telephonic communications are even covered by the fourth amendment.

        Here's a well done, comprehensive diary by HamdenRice:

        http://www.dailykos.com/...

        The dossier on my DKos activities during the Bush administration will be presented on February 3, 2014.

        by Inland on Thu Jan 30, 2014 at 01:06:12 PM PST

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        •  OK, so in short, (0+ / 0-)

          according to you, in the days when we communicated on paper via mail and over standard telephone lines, we were protected against warrantless gov't surveillance.  Now that we use other means, we no longer are.

          HamdenRice's diary actually contends that the warrantless interception, recording, and storage of electronic communications -- such as phone calls -- is not prohibited under the Fourth Amendment.  Only the use of such information without a warrant is.

          That's .... breathtaking.  

          Almost equally absurd is the cursory dismssal of Katz v. United States as inapposite because the only remedy it provided was expansion of the exclusionary rule to include the contents of telephone conversations tapped w/o a warrant.  (Hint: that was the only remedy being asked for, and unless you're the Roberts Court in Citizens United, you don't go providing remedies that the parties haven't asked for, or go beyond the scope of what was litigated in the courts below.)

          So now... care to discuss what HamdenRice's extraordinarily narrow reading of Fourth Amendment precedent, his refusal to even deal in a serious way with Katz v. United States (until the "next installment"), and a predictably broad reading of Smith v. Maryland, would do to, say, the contents of VOIP communications?  Oh never mind, as far as you (and Hamden) are concerned the Constitution is just fine with the warrantless, indefinite interception and storage of all our "plain old telephone" conversations as well.

          I gotta admit.... Hamden did a fine job of legal writing in defense of the President and the NSA.  Alberto Gonzales himself couldn't have done a better job.

          "A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty. The means of defence agst. foreign danger, have been always the instruments of tyranny at home." - James Madison

          by gharlane on Sat Feb 01, 2014 at 08:37:26 PM PST

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        •  I'd add as well (0+ / 0-)

          that HamdenRice, on whose diary you rely exclusively, has been a DK member since May 2007 -- under the Bush Administration.

          Every single point raised in that diary to defend the NSA program under Obama could be used just as forcefully (or weakly, as far as I'm concerned) to defend the Bush admin.  As I wrote in my previous comment, even Alberto Gonzales himself could have done no better.

          One has to wonder why HamdenRice waited so long, considering the uproar the Bush warrantless wiretapping caused.

          "A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty. The means of defence agst. foreign danger, have been always the instruments of tyranny at home." - James Madison

          by gharlane on Sat Feb 01, 2014 at 08:42:29 PM PST

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      •  I'd like... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tortmaster

        things like this to be kept under scrutiny, yes...

        http://thinkprogress.org/...

        "It's almost as if we're watching Mitt Romney on Safari in his own country." -- Jonathan Capeheart

        by JackND on Thu Jan 30, 2014 at 05:13:00 PM PST

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