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View Diary: What is this lawsuit really about? NYSAFE Act Part III - Updated w/ poll (18 comments)

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  •  Why is it called the "Dormant" Commerce Clause? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    WakeUpNeo, Glen The Plumber

    For people who don't know much about it would you care to elaborate?

    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.” — William Arthur Ward

    by LilithGardener on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 11:07:10 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  There's not much "dormant" about one of Congress's (3+ / 0-)

      ... major Article I powers. It's in the eye of the beholder.

      This particular Supreme Court might not think much of Congressional power. Extending it was one of SCOTUS's main thrusts in the last six decades of the 20th century when conservatives did not reign.

      Now it may be that law schools are using this phrase these days, but it surprised me that Judge Skretny did, without at least quote marks around it.

      2014 IS COMING. Build up the Senate. Win back the House : 17 seats. Plus!

      by TRPChicago on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 12:36:11 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Really, I'd prefer "implicit commerce clause" (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LilithGardener, Glen The Plumber

      Basically, the federal government is granted the constitutional power to regulate interstate commerce.  In the case of a "dormant commerce clause" challenge they haven't explicitly exercised this power by contradicting the state law in question, but the state law appears to intentionally inhibit interstate commerce (In this case, by requiring transactions be face-to-face, which would essentially prohibit an interstate transaction of ammo.)

      It's "dormant" because the federal power isn't being actively exercised, but is still being encroached by the state.

      •  Since importing ammunition is already regulated (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Glen The Plumber

        by laws that govern federally licensed firearms dealers, does the NY Safe Act effectively prohibit NYS residents, who can legally own guns and ammo, from operating an unlicensed business importing ammunition into New York state.

        Do I understand this correctly?

        If a particular kind of ammo is not available locally, the face-to-face part of the law essentially requires people to ask an FFL to order the ammo for them?

        Or they can apply for an FFL and a NY business license if they want to buy ammo out of state and import it for their specialty gun.

        Thanks, MGross.

        "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.” — William Arthur Ward

        by LilithGardener on Tue Jan 14, 2014 at 02:28:56 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm not familiar enough with the NY Safe Act... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          LilithGardener

          ...to answer that question, I'm afraid.

        •  I read this a little differently (0+ / 0-)

          I read it as meaning because of the face to face requirement, it has ipso facto denied the ability of citizens to purchase ammunition from online sellers.  It can be argued that doing so stifles competition and could lead to a dramatic rise in prices.  Economically speaking, it creates and oligopoly, or a few suppliers market which behaves very differently from a normal market where supply and demand have more influence.  An another example of an oligopoly being the airlines.  Periodically, one airline will attempt to raise fares and in response either all airlines raise the fares in unison or the price hike fails and prices revert.

          It also potentially limits the ability of the people to competitively shop for bulk discount quantities.  For most recreational shooters and hunters this may not be too much of an issue but for someone who is going to train or engage in (sport) competitions the potential price increase could be prohibitive.

          I am not a lawyer, nor did I sleep at a Holiday Inn Express, but from my novice perspective this seems like it could make a strong case against the requirement.

          "It's not surveillance, it's data collection to keep you safe"

          by blackhand on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 10:54:34 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Thanks for dropping by, blackhand (0+ / 0-)

            and for taking a shot at what you think the impact will be.

            "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.” — William Arthur Ward

            by LilithGardener on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 11:39:20 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  After reading your reply, another though occured (0+ / 0-)

              to me.  Is perchance this act in effect attempting to legislate away crime, violence, and evil thoughts?  If so, would it not make it a questionable endeavor, much like the prohibition of alcohol turned out to be.  I am asking in all seriousness and in the interests of discussion as well as the fact that I question the law's efficacy.  

              "It's not surveillance, it's data collection to keep you safe"

              by blackhand on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 01:28:47 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  The law may effect a leveling of the field (0+ / 0-)

                for legal retailers. It supports legitimate businesses that serve legal gun owners. E.g. FFLs, firing ranges, and shooting sports clubs.

                On market forces - I think that the law requires ammunition sellers, who want access to New York markets, to have a licensed business presence in the state, or develop a relationship with a business that does.

                On tax avoidance - Any ammunition that can be purchased now over the internet will of course be cheaper if the purchase can be conducted without NY state sales tax. Avoiding state sales tax by shopping over the internet is not very persuasive argument about price, IMO.

                On law enforcement - It may also give an enforcement tool to law enforcement to prosecute people who will import ammunition into the state to serve the criminal gun market. The vast majority of crime guns recovered in NYS originate in stats with loose gun policy.

                Next open thread is in a few hours. Feel free to bring the conversation over there. See you later!

                "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.” — William Arthur Ward

                by LilithGardener on Wed Jan 15, 2014 at 01:54:01 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

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