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View Diary: I'm Now Another Jew Who's Been Barred from Speaking within a Jewish Building (in America) (147 comments)

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  •  interesting link. (0+ / 0-)

    the content there, and citing of its constitency, are reminiscent of the republican party (mitch mcconnell, i believe, but perhaps not) announcing its total focus as opposition of the new administration on everything.

    if we americans 6 to 10 thousand miles away with little to zero firsthand fully-dug-in-&-no-alternative experience of the daily situation are confident we have ascertained facts demonstrating that the entities asking our help with financial FORCE (boycotts etc) do factually have

    --the broad and extensive public support they assert,
    --and have found acceptable the extent of damage that would also impact those of their society who receive any form of help from Israeli agencies or have jobs working in Israeli society alongside Israelis of every religion and guestworkers from poor countries globally and refugees from africa etc who are all served by Israel's human-services structures (which are far more inclusive than America's, but of course you know that),
    --and reached the conclusion that the suffering caused by that coercion if successful would in fact achieve the aims of (presumably) providing jobs to the jobless, homes for the homeless, healthcare for the ill and injured, food for the hungry, education and path upward for all...

    then of course it's understandable that we may choose to participate in coercion rather than focus on (as i've suggested elsewhere)
    -- importing/buying Palestinian products
    -- and being customers of Jewish (and Christian and Bahaii and Jane etc) businesses in Israel that put their OWN money AND THEIR LIVES and their business practices into striving for legal, social and economic justice for all.

    As other commenters have mentioned discovering, Israel is far from monolithic in public position and effort, and the battle against American money inserted into its political process with steady pressure to the right has been an added struggle ever since the '67 war, when the American imagination was suddenly seized by the manipulations of the oil industry portraying a David vs Goliath image to assist in the divide and conquer corporate policies that have proven so profitable in economic empire for a millenia or so.

    also, criticism harsh or gentle, and adding our voices to the call for financial coercions, doesn't cost us Americans much in time or effort or $.  We can do it right from our keyboards in total safety.  Or if we are physically able (I'm handicapped and housebound, so I can't), join in a public street demonstration, and then grab some restaurant food on the drive home, comfortable in the belief that we have "helped".

    The moment we feel certain about that, we're likely mistaken.

    •  I know what I AM certain of-- (4+ / 0-)

      the good people of Israel have failed with respect to the occupation, as the last 50 years shows, and most Israelis are now quite comfortable with the status quo regarding the occupation. Relying on them to restore civil and human rights to the Palestinians is plain silly.never if they have the will, they don't have the power.

      Also, if you think being able to buy Palestinian hummus is going to help the Palestinians in any measurable way, I would say you're being a bit quixotic. What are they going to do? Buy their freedom from Israel? In any case, the biggest obstacle to a functioning Palestinian economy is the illegal Israeli occupation, which controls what they can produce and export.

      Further, I seriously doubt you would make the same argument regarding advocacy from a distance, and calling for boycott, about apartheid South Africa or Darfur.

      If reality clashes with your belief, then the problem clearly is reality.--God

      by Flyswatterbanjo on Sun Jan 12, 2014 at 08:30:23 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  could i ask your 1sthand experience in israel & (0+ / 0-)

        whether you have friends or relatives on the israeli left of any religion or ethnicity who are a useful source of daily-life practical info for you?  i'd be very interested in what you can share with me from them and of your own experience that contributes to the formation of your views.

        meanwhile, it's startling that you seem to suggest that making humous is all that palestinians do and all they can do as economic endeavor locally, regionally, or worldwide.  this would be not only [a] stereotypical prejudice blind to the professions, technologies, arts, trades, and scholarship of the palestinian people but also [b] a covert implication that palestinians don't possess the skills and practical capacities for non-dependent commerce and self-governance.  so even if you actually intended it as a reductio ad absurdum argument, perhaps it's kind of patronizing and insulting toward a people you seem to claim to advocate for?

        as regards south africa, i had personal connections there as well (who were forcibly exiled following imprisonment for anti-apartheidt activities and for associating with 'kafirs'), so it's probably not a productive conversation to open at this point.  i'm on the brink of the 7th decade of life, descendent of a family and their friends activist for human rights every place they were forced to live and "allowed" to live and finally could choose to live, always paying a price (my father literally gave his life and his death for human rights, 'tho that is of course his virtue, not mine, as is true of other relatives and friends who have been my teachers, mentors, and ideals - which may go a little way to illuminate upon what basis my own views were formed and continue to evolve).

        i have no firsthand nor secondhand connections to information about Darfur, though, merely the same sources as any other disabled handicapped lower-class american struggling to manage a life alone after paying some prices myself, so if you'd like to offer your thoughts about Darfur, i will gladly read them as my circumstances allow.

        thanks for your interesting and impassioned reply.

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