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View Diary: Meat=cancer we've known since 1907 (93 comments)

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  •  Read The Chinu Study (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Crider

    I dare you!

    :-)

    Melissa
    (low fat raw vegan)

    Dissent is Patriotic

    by mwjeepster on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 12:11:48 PM PST

    •  Dr. T. Colin Campbell (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Santa Susanna Kid, True North

      Has a nice talk on the youtubes called Animal Protein (meat and dairy) Causes Cancer. He goes through lots of research he's done, including the China Study

      "Societies strain harder and harder to sustain the decadent opulence of the ruling class, even as it destroys the foundations of productivity and wealth." — Chris Hedges

      by Crider on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 12:42:30 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The China Study is not statistically reliable (7+ / 0-)

        to put it politely. See, for example, Science-Based Medicine or the statistical analysis that site links.

        From Science-Based Medicine:

        This is a cautionary tale. It shows how complex issues can be over-simplified into meaninglessness, how epidemiologic data can be misinterpreted and mislead us, and how a researcher can approach a problem with preconceptions that allow him to see only what he wants to see. The China Study was embraced by vegetarians because it seemed to support their beliefs with strong evidence. Minger has shown that that evidence is largely illusory. The issues raised are important and deserve further study by unbiased scientists. At any rate, one thing is clear: the China Study is not sufficient reason to recommend drastic reductions in protein intake, let alone total avoidance of meat and dairy foods.

        No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

        by badger on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 12:51:04 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I see Harriet Hall's article (0+ / 0-)

          citing Denise Minger's survey of the data. And I find Hall's conclusions to be weak.

          I also charge that meat and dairy are both sacred cows and that there will always be somebody there to poopoo anything that doesn't fit their pre-conceived pictures.

          "Societies strain harder and harder to sustain the decadent opulence of the ruling class, even as it destroys the foundations of productivity and wealth." — Chris Hedges

          by Crider on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 01:01:58 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  And I think (6+ / 0-)

            that you're entitled to make up your own ideology, but not to make up your own science or math. But then I'm not really arguing with you, as I long ago learned it was pointless to argue with fundamentalists of any persuasion.

            I think some people might find the links interesting and be able to arrive at their own judgment about the validity of one side or the other, which is why I posted them. You don't want this to be a one-sided discussion, do you?

            No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

            by badger on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 01:06:09 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  One friggin' article (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              sillia

              in a pop science website does not invalidate the China Study. Sorry!

              "Societies strain harder and harder to sustain the decadent opulence of the ruling class, even as it destroys the foundations of productivity and wealth." — Chris Hedges

              by Crider on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 01:22:51 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  Really? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            badger

            Hall's conclusions are "weak"? Weak how exactly?

          •  good science (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            badger

            can be done to persuade other scientists.

            One important part of science is replication.  Can the study be replicated?

            There is an important campaign AllTrials which tries to get clinical trials to report their results.  Plus people want studies to be registered before they begin, in order that they can be judged purely on the strength of their methodology.

            Another shining sphere flies from Feior's hands, and you are frozen where you stand

            by GideonAB on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 06:47:46 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

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