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View Diary: Supporting medical pot is like supporting civil unions (219 comments)

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  •  Sorry no (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jgkojak, skymutt, greenbell

    equating a drug to choosing who you want to spend your life with is plain insane.  

    I am all for true medical uses for pot but come on.  We ALL know that a significant percentage of "medical" users are recreational.  Until this year you could get a "prescription" for MJ easier than a BJ.  $50 and you had a script.  

    And lets be more honest about it - if pot can be legalized than so can any other drug.  How can you say pot is legal but coke isn't?  Heroin has a longer history of medical use than pot so should it be legal?  Sometimes society has to protect us from ourselves.

    It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

    by ksuwildkat on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:24:33 AM PST

    •  Ehh...nt (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JayBat, TheLizardKing, BYw, flevitan

      “In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.” Terry Pratchett

      by 420 forever on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:26:33 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  There's so much garbage in your post that I don't (7+ / 0-)

      even know where to begin.

      “In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.” Terry Pratchett

      by 420 forever on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:28:06 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Please proceed... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        greenbell, al23

        Please justify keeping cocaine illegal.  Please justify keeping heroin illegal.  Like pot they are "natural" and like pot they have medical uses.  

        Please tell me that there are no "prescription pot" abusers.

        It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

        by ksuwildkat on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:35:49 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  LOL - cocaine and heroin "natural". You just (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Alexandra Lynch, Bonsai66, BYw

          raised teh stupid up a big notch.

          “In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.” Terry Pratchett

          by 420 forever on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:39:16 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Go smoke a bowl (0+ / 0-)

            I guess those were plastic poppy fields in Afghanistan.....

            It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

            by ksuwildkat on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:44:56 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Poppy is not heroin. Coca is not cocaine. Go do a (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              OHdog, Bonsai66, BYw, flevitan

              little basic research before making an ass out of yourself on the interwebz.

              “In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.” Terry Pratchett

              by 420 forever on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:46:37 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  And an old fashioned hemp plant (0+ / 0-)

                is not today's designer bud.

                I'll stop calling him Boner when he stops saying I belong to the Democrat Party.

                by al23 on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:50:59 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Hemp is used for rope. The stoner version has been (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Davidsfr, 420 forever, Bonsai66, BYw

                  cultivated for its physiological efects for 5000 years. Just because the USA is only now cultivating the more potent strains does not make them a new and dangerous entity.

                  Life is just a bowl of Cherries, that stain your hands and clothes and have pits that break your teeth.

                  by OHdog on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:56:25 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Splittng hairs (0+ / 0-)

                    The stuff I grew in my moms attic back in the 70's bears no resemblance to the high tech hydroponically grown bud they cultivate today.

                    Plenty of technology applied, just like with Heroin and Coke. (I think they've smoked opium for a long time too)

                    I'll stop calling him Boner when he stops saying I belong to the Democrat Party.

                    by al23 on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:19:11 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Splitting hairs is right (0+ / 0-)

                      Pot diaries tend to become like RKBA diaries .

                      Obama 2012 http://whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com/

                      by jiffypop on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:26:12 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Except that if you plant a seed of this (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      OHdog, Bonsai66, BYw

                      "high tech" magic herb on the gound, it will turn into a plant. Just like the stuff you allegedly grew in your mom's basement back in the 70's (which I doubt you did).

                      “In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.” Terry Pratchett

                      by 420 forever on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:26:31 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Sorry you were a poor pharma-farmer According to (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      420 forever, Bonsai66, BYw

                      reports

                      The European Monitoring Centre For Drugs and Drug Addiction (EMCDDA), in their July 2004 report titled "An Overview of Cannabis Potency in Europe" noted the following:
                      "The available data do not show any long-term marked upward trend in the potency of herbal cannabis or cannabis resin imported into Europe.
                      The effective potency in nearly all countries has remained quite stable for many years at around 6-8%. The only exception has been the Netherlands where, by 2001-2002, it had reached 16%....[I]t must be assumed that the quality of herbal cannabis consumed in the USA more than twenty years ago was unusually poor, but that in recent years it has risen to levels typical of Europe. So even the modest increase found by ElSohly et al. (2000) may be less significant than it seems.

                      Life is just a bowl of Cherries, that stain your hands and clothes and have pits that break your teeth.

                      by OHdog on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:31:07 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  It is this way because of the drug war (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      BYw, RMForbes, wishingwell

                      It became more powerful and more high tech because of the drug war. There's a prohibition mindset that created a stronger high. Had the drug war not been in place, it's less likely to have become as jacked up as it has.

                      There's a decent chance these "less powerful" strains will become more used rather than their more jacked up "relatives" the farther we move away from prohibition.

              •  Fine pothead (2+ / 3-)
                Recommended by:
                Remembering Jello, Brecht
                Hidden by:
                Davidsfr, Alexandra Lynch, Bonsai66

                Khat
                Shrooms
                peyote

                and of course you are dead wrong about poppies since the produce raw opium that is smoked all over the world in its "natural" state.

                Coca is used in its raw state also.

                You can pretend that the pot you smoke occurs naturally but it is the product of extensive genetic engineering to increase its effects...no different than refining opium into heroin.    

                But you keep smoking your pot......

                It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

                by ksuwildkat on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:21:00 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Hide rating for belligerence (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  420 forever, Bonsai66, flevitan

                  and also outright ignorance.

                  •  Dammit, ya made me uprate (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Brecht

                    Disagreeing with someone is not grounds for an HR.

                    Is "pothead" a derisive term? I see far too many people talking about their marijuana use to think that it is.

                    So, reluctantly uprated.

                  •  ksuwildkat is, I think, completely wrong in this (0+ / 0-)

                    argument - but still not HRable.

                    When you name yourself "420 forever", you're setting yourself up to be called "pothead".

                    Much more importantly, 420 forever started the insulting:

                    "There's so much garbage in your post that I don't even know where to begin."

                    ksuwildkat gave a perhaps erroneous, but certainly civil response - and got back:

                    "You just raised teh stupid up a big notch."

                    Ignorance is, alas, not HRable. 420 forever started the belligerence. Your HR is bogus.

                    "Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson

                    by Brecht on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:23:36 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                •  You said heroin was natural. Not me. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  BYw
                  Please justify keeping heroin illegal.  Like pot they are "natural" and like pot they have medical uses.  
                  Unless you are unable to differentiate heroin from opium.

                  “In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.” Terry Pratchett

                  by 420 forever on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:28:42 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Wow Davissfr (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Brecht

                  you HR and dont even present a counter argument?

                  Please tell me which of those other "natural" drugs should be just as legal as pot?  Please tell me how we dont slide down that slippery slope that results in legal recreational drugs for all?

                  And please dont tell me its for "pothead."  Anyone who calls themselves "420 Forever" is not going to deny any part of "pot head"

                  It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

                  by ksuwildkat on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:30:04 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  "Slippery Slope" is always BS (4+ / 0-)

                    first of all, I've been responding to you all over this thread, go look.

                    So if gay marriage is legalized are we on a "slippery slope" to animal-human marriage and all combinations of legal polygamy?

                    Heroin and cocaine are both far more dangerous than pot, they are highly physically addictive and a signifcant amount of crime can be attributed to their use. In other words, it is not just the harm one does to oneself but to others that differentiates these drugs and this is a very reasonable basis for legality.

                    Telling people who are putting up arguments against your stance against reefer legaliziation to "go smoke more" and such is clearly belligerent. Hence the hide rating.

                    •  Careful (0+ / 0-)

                      You are starting to sound like a ditto head.  But for the record, I believe the sudden and near total change by the LDS church in opposing same sex marriage is related to polygamy.  I cant think of a civil, legal argument to polygamy and I dont think it is right to impose the Christian version of things at the expense of the Muslim one.  

                      The animal stuff is pure TeaPublican BS.

                      I agree that heroin and cocaine are worse.  The synthetics are worse still.  But the basic arguments for pot - my body, its natural, etc - are all present for a whole host of bad things.  

                      Want to get stoned?  Come up with new reasons.  I suggest looking to beer commercials.

                      It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

                      by ksuwildkat on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:55:37 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I'm using the polygany/beastiality examples (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Bonsai66

                        to show you how weak your arguments are in saying that legalizing pot would lead to legalizing other, more dangerous drugs. I think that is pretty clear.

                        If the only harm one does is to oneself by using a substance than it should not be illegal. If there is a high incidence of crimes against others when using a drug that is a very stron case against its legalization. There is no evidence at all pot use increases the likelihood of commiting crimes against others, there is plenty of evidence that use of cocaine, heroin, and several other drugs does.

        •  Heroin and cocaine are not like marijuana (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          BYw, flevitan, wishingwell

          Both heroin and cocaine are not plants from the ground, but incredibly processed. A better analogy would be to say marijuana is to coca leaves and poppies. Both the latter two have cultural contexts within which they are used (like marijuana). Heroin and cocaine do not.

    •  Yes, I think the pot legalizing community (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Alexandra Lynch

      Loses the voters it needs to push this thing mainstream because they refuse to admit that 1) a majority of medical mj users are doing it recreationally (nothing wrong w/that) and 2) that using mj daily does negatively impact your life in some ways, and that, like all drugs its possible to abuse mj.

      I'm for legalization, but I've known enough stoners in my day to know that the people who do it daily aren't actually all that much fun to be around.

      •  This old farm gal is getting old (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Alexandra Lynch

        More unemployment!
        More food stamps (but no farms)!
        More pot (whoops farm subsidizes for growing organic pot, totally awesome)!

        /snark

        Whoa, would that have worked with every young graduate I knew who just wasn't quite ready to you know, get a job (but who was too stoned to like vote). Well, that was 45 years ago but I have a feeling the Republicans can still work with this.  

      •  I don't know if I'd say a majority. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        flevitan, wishingwell

        I mean, the muscle relaxant I use currently raises natural endorphins and relaxes skeletal muscles. The fact that it also feels really good is a nice side effect, but I would say about half the time I'm thinking about getting my calves to relax, not the pleasure.

        Life with pain sucks. I'm not going to tell anyone not to get pleasure out of life, and not everyone is as driven or controlling as I am, and they don't have to be.

        When you come to find how essential the comfort of a well-kept home is to the bodily strength and good conditions, to a sound mind and spirit, and useful days, you will reverence the good housekeeper as I do above artist or poet, beauty or genius.

        by Alexandra Lynch on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 10:08:14 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Likely because that is not true at all (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wishingwell

        The medicinal cannabis users primarily use strains of herbal cannabis that treat their specific ailments and don't really care about getting high. My 83 year old mother has been using a strain of cannabis that has a high concentration of the CBD cannabinoid and a much lower concentration of THC to treat her chronic pain from fibromyalgia and rheumatoid arthritis. The client of my brother with Stage IV cancer uses a concentrated cannabinoid oil product produced by my brother to treat the side effects of chemotherapy. A medicinal user that suffers from insomnia drinks a cup of herbal cannabis tea before bed...they don't get stoned. You are perpetuating the mythology of marijuana created decades ago to villianize the entire genus of cannabis plants.  

        Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

        by RMForbes on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 06:46:54 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  CO resident (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      skymutt

      probably should have added I live in Colorado.

      drugz r bad....mkay

      It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

      by ksuwildkat on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:28:49 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Because cocaine is far more dangerous than pot? (7+ / 0-)

      Who do you know that has died from pot?  I know of no one.  However, I do know people who had died from cocaine use, heroin use, and liver cirrhosis from alcohol abuse.

      I'm all for true medical uses of pot, too.  But guess what?  It's illegal to find them in this country because pot is classified as a dangerous drug.

      And actually, if you want to go far enough back in history, pot probably has a longer history of medical use.

      •  Yup (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        greenbell

        no one has ever gotten stoned and done something stupid....oh wait

        Gosh that took me 2 seconds of brain activity.  Could I have done that stoned?

        It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

        by ksuwildkat on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:38:16 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  What does that link have to do with pot? (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          420 forever, Bonsai66, BYw

          I looked through many of the incidents listed in that post and couldn't find one that pertained to marijuane. Want  to be specific about the incident you are referring to?

          And yes, you could have found that info just as quickly if you were stoned.

          •  number 36 in the link (0+ / 0-)

            so looking at "many" is not the same as all.

          •  here (0+ / 0-)

            NAIRN, LA, 12/19/13: An 18-year-old man hog hunting with two close friends accidentally shot them when he mistook them for the hogs he sought, Plaquemines Parish Sheriff Lonnie Greco said. The shots from the shotgun of Willie Evans struck and killed 18-year-old Galen Scott and injured 17-year-old Cody Jones. The incident occurred Thursday around 5:45 p.m. in Nairn, just south of Port Sulphur. According to Greco, deputies received a call of two people shot in Nairn and those who arrived on the scene found Scott suffering from wounds to the head and leg, he was pronounced dead on the scene. Jones was shot in the legs and was taken to the hospital where he underwent surgery. He is expected to make a full recovery. Greco said that based on interviews with Evans, Jones and other witnesses, it appears that the three friends went hog hunting in a wooded area and that prior to the trip, they had smoked marijuana. After the sun had set, Greco said that Scott and Jones began walking towards Evans and that he observed two objects about 75 feet away and, thinking they were the hogs they sought, he fired back-to-back rounds of buckshot from his gun, striking both young men.

            It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

            by ksuwildkat on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:11:24 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  A classic example of causal fallacy (7+ / 0-)

              You must've been drinking when you thought that this would serve as a good example of the "dangers" of marijuana.

              “In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.” Terry Pratchett

              by 420 forever on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:14:51 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Thanks, no proof this was caused (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                420 forever, flevitan

                by pot, and how many hunting accidents have occurred because of alcohol?

                •  If anything, the issue was probably caused by (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  BYw, flevitan

                  poor visibility:

                  After the sun had set, Greco said that Scott and Jones began walking towards Evans and that he observed two objects about 75 feet away and, thinking they were the hogs they sought, he fired back-to-back rounds of buckshot from his gun, striking both young men.

                  “In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.” Terry Pratchett

                  by 420 forever on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:30:23 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  oh come on (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  lina

                  There is NO argument that drunk people do stupid things EVERY DAY.  Hell we have whole organizations that are dedicated to keeping people from making dumb decisions while drunk.

                  Want to know why people are so resistant to legal pot arguments?  because the pot lobby pretends that people dont do dumb things while stoned.  No everything is happiness and safe while stoned.  When the pot lobby grows up and ADMITS that some people do dumb things while stoned and ADMITS that being stoned is something not every employer wants they will continue to be disregarded as adolescents.

                  If people want to smoke pot its their choice.  I could care less if they do.  But pretending you can be a productive member of society and stoned every day is comical and NO DIFFERENT than saying you can be a productive member of society and DRUNK.

                  There is a time and place to be impaired.  Its not while driving, working, hunting or a bunch of other activities.  Until the pot community admits that their impairment of choice is no different than any other drugs, they will be dismissed.

                  It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

                  by ksuwildkat on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:41:44 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Where are we going? (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    420 forever, flevitan

                    Sorry to see I can apparently only HR you once.

                  •  Define "productive". (5+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    420 forever, Davidsfr, Bonsai66, BYw, flevitan
                    But pretending you can be a productive member of society and stoned every day is comical and NO DIFFERENT than saying you can be a productive member of society and DRUNK.
                    I was a housepainter for about twenty years. Just about everybody in that trade is stoned all day long.

                    During that period, I bought my home, raised my daughter, paid my taxes, didn't cause any problems for anybody.

                    Was I "not productive"?

                    Today my job involves a lot more interaction with the public and a lot more math, so i don't work stoned anymore. Am I "more productive" now that I'm running a retail business?

                    Serious question.

                    •  and a lot of media companies and museums (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Remembering Jello, flevitan

                      in NYC in the 80s and 90s (probably other decades too, this is just from my experience) were likewise staffed with people among whom you could find those who consumed marijuana along with their morning coffee.

                    •  Yikes (0+ / 0-)

                      As someone who is scared of heights I can't imagine painting while stoned.  I would guess that any workmans comp claim would be invalidated by the presence of drugs (or alcohol) in the system.  Im glad you had no adverse effects.

                      So I look at this as a parent.  Would you want your child (as an adult) to go to work stoned?  Would you want your child (as an adult) to drive stoned?  If the answer is no, it is probably because you recognize that the risks of doing so are great.  What is a productive member of society?  One who doent place their own safety and the safety of others below the desire to be in a chemically altered state.

                      It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

                      by ksuwildkat on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 10:15:54 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

    •  Well some people use prescription meds for (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      annieli, Bonsai66, flevitan, davematson

      recreational use, sadly I used to treat far too many who were addicted to legally prescribed medications as well as very legal alcohol. I never had a patient in those years I did addictions counseling who are addicted to marijuana...but many who were alcoholics or hooked on their pain meds.

      Keystone Liberals on Twitter @ KeystoneLibs , Join PA Liberals at http://keystoneliberalsforum.aimoo.com/

      by wishingwell on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:48:33 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Pot is less dangerous than alcohol, nicotine (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      420 forever, flevitan, RMForbes

      maybe even caffeine. They are all legal substances. Pot is only illegal because of Hearst's fear of hemp and the alcohol industry's fear of losing business. There is no good basis for illegalizing pot.

    •  Legalize it (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      420 forever, davematson, RMForbes

      I've heard this argument all my life, it's obfuscation. Because pot is called a drug then ALL drugs are lumped together. Then you are asked to defend legalizing coke and heroin. Marijuana is not cocaine or heroin. I smoke pot, I do not do heroin or coke. I do not want to legalize heroin or coke. Let heroin and coke users fight there own battles. Just like gays only want the right to marry, not have man on dog sex.

      •  and I will advertize it (0+ / 0-)

        sorry I can't link to Bob Marley on YouTube!

      •  Marijuana is not a drug (0+ / 0-)

        It's not even a variety of cannabis plants...it's a slang term created to villianize the entire genus of cannabis plants because after the invention of the hemp decorticator the cannabis hemp plant suddenly threatened the profitability of timber paper products and the newly developed synthetic nylon fiber products. Like the drug in coffee is called caffeine and the drug in tobacco is called nicotine, the drugs found in cannabis resins are called cannabinoids. Cannabinoids are arguably the most therapeutic and least toxic substances known.  

        Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

        by RMForbes on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 06:56:53 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  "Society has to protect us from ourselves" (0+ / 0-)

      Is exactly the argument against marriage equality.

      How about no one tries to tell anyone else what to do with their bodies or in their bedrooms, ok?

      Those who support banning cocaine are no better than those who support banning cheeseburgers

      by EthrDemon on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 11:23:15 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  ....mmmm.... (0+ / 0-)

      And, that's what we call "authoritarianism".

      I don't want to be protected from myself.   I want factual information, and choices.   I might even want certifications and advisory warnings to guide me.   And then, I want to make my own choice.

      You are making an assumption that the government actually can protect you from yourself.   I am not convinced, and the evidence is shaky.   How long has the "Drug War" been going on?    Have you seen the news?  The gangs are more sophisticated now.  The urban drug centers are spreading to the suburbs.    Has our strategy of "protecting people from themselves" actually working?    I don't think we can call the Drug War, the strategy of attempting to restrict people's choose about what they put into their bodies, a success.   I've asked my kids, and they know the kids in school who do drugs, and know how to get some if they want it.    Just like thirty years ago.    So, what have we accomplished?  How much money did we spend?   How much money have we diverted from public coffers to criminal gangs because we are too moral to let it flow through the legitimate market?  

      Enabling people to make better choices, rather than attempting to constrain their choices, is a much more effective strategy.    If we can offer free education, we can offer free rehab.   It would be cheaper than all the prisons and the SWAT teams.

      •  Speed limits? Safety regulations? (0+ / 0-)

        So speed limits are out?  Seatbelt laws?  Helmet laws?

        We accept all manner of government restrictions on stupid.

        It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

        by ksuwildkat on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 03:00:14 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  There are some differences (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SFLiberal

          Speed limits involve protecting people from other people.   I didn't say it's not a function of government to protect people from other people.  I belive that is a valid and necessary function.   It is only protecting people from themselves that I object to.  It is a fundamentally different proposition.      I agree that we should have a right that people shouldn't just run right over us, that we have to have some rules to make our transportation system work for everyone.    However, in the case of drug use, I don't necessarily agree that we have a right to demand that other people won't use drugs because we think it's immoral or we just don't like them doing that or even that it's a danger to them, no more than we have a right to tell them they can't skydive, or rappel, or downhill ski, or any of the other activities people do that are potentially dangerous, or tell them they have to go to church because we think that's healthier for them.        And, we have already recognized this, in allowing cigarettes and alcohol, which are both  scientifically proven to cause death.  How much more dangerous can something be?!!!!

          Seatbelt and helmet laws are regulations relating to a shared transportation system, and can be justified in reducing the disruption of our transportation system that impacts all of us. When someone dies due to improper use of a regulated transportation device -- i.e., a car or motorcycle --  it disrupts the flow of traffic to greater degree than a simple collision with no casualties, and we have to send paid public workers to go scrape their remains off our roadways.      Regulating use of vehicles on public roads in a way that keeps the roads operating efficiently for all is more of an argument for the use of seatbelts or helmets than protecting people from themselves.  

          I can justify restrictions on drugs to keep them away from kids.  And, to keep them out of public areas.   And, to keep them from being imposed on others who do not want to participate or be exposed to them.   But, I have a much harder time justifying interfering with privacy and freedom of individuals in their own homes.  And, I think that the history of various attempts at Prohibition backs that up.   A large chunk of our population, so large that it is unmanageable, do not consent to having this area of their lives governed, and they have demonstrated that fact, over and over and over again.

          One issue that does exist, however, is how crazy a person has to be, in order for his rights to be constrained, and for the government to move into a caretaking role, and what do we do when that happens.    While I support the right of people to use drugs, I recognize that drugs can render some of them incompetent, and then we have to have a plan for what to do with them.   However, I object to a "futurecrime" justice system, that takes away the freedoms of everyone, because some people misuse those freedoms.

          There are trade-offs.   We err on the side of constraining freedom in this country, and I think it's a mistake.   The Drug War, and Prohibition, demonstrate very effectively how this approach does not work.  

    •  You are grossly uninformed on the topic (0+ / 0-)

      Cannabis resins have been used medicinally for a wide range of ailments for at least 5,000 years. Most of what you are calling recreational use is actually medicinal use. The stress of modern life has well known links to serious medical problems while occasional cannabis use is a safe and effective treatment for stress. Also, cannabinoids like CBD promotes a healthy sleep cycle and there is nothing more important to overall health than getting a good nights sleep. There is no better cure for insomnia than the herbal cannabinoids found in cannabis resins.

      Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

      by RMForbes on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 06:33:12 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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