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View Diary: Another plea for postcapitalism: Richard Smith in Truthout (77 comments)

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  •  I don't think there will or can be infinite growth (0+ / 0-)

    I just don't buy that capitalism is somehow incompatible with a steady state economy with zero growth. In fact, capitalism is probably better suited to that state of affairs than any strong(er) government control economy. When economic actors are free to make their own decisions (within reason) better outcomes are achieved (I think).

    I have little interest in continuing if this is just another "I'm so  right and you're so wrong" exercise.  If capitalism is the best humans can do, then we probably deserve to perish.  In any case, I made some points which deserved more serious response than twisting of my words to make it about me.
    It's not about you, it's about the point that you made that suggests that Americans are "compulsive" and "greedy" based on blandishments of advertising by the capitalist agenda. This implies that you believe that all Americans exist under some massive propaganda cloud and are brainwashed by it.

    If this isn't what you think, please clarify, but it sure sounds that way to me...

    (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
    Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

    by Sparhawk on Sun Jan 19, 2014 at 04:12:51 PM PST

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    •  What does a majority of economic actors ... (1+ / 0-)
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      ... being free to make their own decisions have to do with capitalism? Modern capitalism is about putting those decisions in the hands of privately elected governments.

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      by BruceMcF on Sun Jan 19, 2014 at 04:52:15 PM PST

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    •  Okay (0+ / 0-)

      When you ascribe my views to necessarily meaning that I feel superior, then that makes it about me.  Not that it matters, but I am well aware of the effects of advertising because I experience them myself, just like everybody else.  That's why I watch very little television.  I hope I don't have to apologize for noticing things.

      You speak of economic actors being free to make their own decisions.  Do you think this is the situation in America today, that economic actors are free to make their own decisions?  How are the small stores on main street doing in your town?  Do you think a group of us, even with plenty of capital, would find ourselves free to enter the health insurance market and compete on a level playing field with the established players?

      I'll leave it to Cassiodorus to discuss what happens in late stage capitalism, but we are seeing the results in the decline of open competition, in regulatory capture, etc.  All too often, freedom of action for one entity means lack of such freedom for their competitors.  Are the banks "free" to collapse as a result of their reckless behavior?  In short, I think this notion of freedom is largely unexamined, based on a childish understanding of what freedom is, and most importantly, does not exist for the vast majority of actors in the system.  I would like to see those who love freedom so much embrace an open discussion about which economic system works better rather than deploying armies, torturers and death squads to prevent countries from trying the systems of their choice.

      As to society being merely a collection of individuals, that is simply wrong.

      Thanks for explaining yourself and responding with substance.  I'm letting this go now.  I'll read whatever you write.

      Secrecy is a hot bed of vanity. - Joseph Brodsky They who have put out the people’s eyes reproach them for their blindness. – John Milton 1642

      by geomoo on Sun Jan 19, 2014 at 04:54:20 PM PST

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      •  Thanks for good conversation (0+ / 0-)

        I have some pretty significant work stuff happening now so it is unlikely I can continue to give this conversation the attention it deserves. Maybe another time :)

        (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
        Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

        by Sparhawk on Mon Jan 20, 2014 at 02:33:17 AM PST

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