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View Diary: Anti-Capitalist Meetup: The Struggle Continues ... 41 years after Roe and Doe (66 comments)

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  •  agreed that the right to have children is just (2+ / 0-)
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    Unca Joseph, Galtisalie

    as much a part of choice as the right not to have children is a choice ... no one disagrees on that in the discussion above; I read the comment as one in which our biological role is our only natural role ...

    "Hegel noticed somewhere that all great world history facts and people so to speak twice occur. He forgot to add: the one time as tragedy, the other time as farce" Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte .

    by NY brit expat on Mon Jan 20, 2014 at 06:03:59 PM PST

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    •  Really? No one disagrees? Then why does one have (0+ / 0-)

      to choose not to have children to be marketable or participate in capitalism, or get a decent paying job? Have kids? Forgetaboutit. That is my point! If you want kids in our society, relegate yourself to poverty. Why should we deny an inherent part of being female to not be poverty ridden? Because men don't? Whatever.

      •  why do you think I discussed social (1+ / 0-)
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        Galtisalie

        reproduction in the piece if I didn't agree with the point? I have been arguing for years for the socialisation of caring so that women are not solely responsible for this job. It is not only having and rearing children, it is also taking care of the sick and the elderly which also falls on women when our insufficient social welfare states are made even more insufficient. Read the stuff I have written on austerity is an attack on women in which I raise the point that you are arguing.

        The issue is that given the nature of capitalism and the way in which patriarchy has adapted to the system has led to this problem. We do not disagree ... this is a topic we have addressed several times in the AC meetup. The problem lies in the nature of capitalism and patriarchy; socialisation of care is essential to help, even reforms such as free child care, free care for the sick and elderly and flexible working hours, maternity leave would help tremendously.

        However, having children may be biological, but having sole or primary responsibility for raising them is social/cultural. That we can change, some of it within the system, the rest when the system is overthrown.

        "Hegel noticed somewhere that all great world history facts and people so to speak twice occur. He forgot to add: the one time as tragedy, the other time as farce" Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte .

        by NY brit expat on Tue Jan 21, 2014 at 06:11:17 AM PST

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      •  Uh, the quote was: (2+ / 0-)
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        NY brit expat, Unca Joseph

        "no one disagrees on that in the discussion above." To the extent you are seeking support for economic justice, including for women, you are in the right place. To the extent, if any, you are against allowing choice, including against support for abortion services for the poor as denied by the Hyde Amendment [and similarly, if you would deny financial support for birth control], you contradict your own professed support for economic justice.

        I simply suggest that you be forthright about your positions concerning the topic of the diary so we in turn can debate any areas of disagreement with you forthrightly rather than you write about how feminism is "struggling" at the beginning and cryptically throwing in a "lack of respect for life" position at the end as bookends containing points where we actually do have significant agreement. Now would be a good time, given the nature of the diary, for you to place anti-choice views on the table.

        I'm on the left wing of the possible. I write for the same reasons Eric Arthur Blair did, just not as well.

        by Galtisalie on Tue Jan 21, 2014 at 09:05:26 AM PST

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