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View Diary: The SCOTUS Is Extraordinary: The Right To Choose (191 comments)

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  •  Republicans don't want a debate.... (4.00)
    .... on abortion. I agree this isn't going to be about abortion. Republicans read polls as well as anyone else. The abortion debate has been used to mobilize the bases on both sides. Mainstream America hasn't put too much thought into the issue since 1973. If abortion moves front and center, here's what the fuzzy end of the lolipop looks like:

    "In 1973 the Roe versus Wade decision established a woman's constitutional right to an abortion, at least in the first three months of pregnancy. Would you like to see the Supreme Court completely overturn its Roe versus Wade decision, or not?"

    6/8-12/05      
    30 - Yes
    63 - No
    07 - Unsure    

    01/03  
    31 - Yes
    62 - No
    07 - Unsure

    "Which of the following best represents your views about abortion? The choice on abortion should be left up to the woman and her doctor. Abortion should be legal only in cases in which pregnancy results from rape or incest or when the life of the woman is at risk. OR, Abortion should be illegal in all circumstances."

    5/12-16/05
    55 - Woman and Doctor
    29 - Rape, Incest, Life of Woman
    14 - Always Illegal
    02 - Unsure  

    11/03
    53 - Woman and Doctor
    29 - Rape, Incest, Life of Woman
    15 - Always Illegal
    03 - Unsure

    Polling Report has a nice collection of data.

    Republicans are politicians first, ideologues second and human beings dead last. THEY DON'T WANT THIS. This vacancy is about civil liberties (Gonzales), church/state issues (Brown, Pryor), affirmative action and the NEW DEAL(<insert conservative here>)!

    Worry about the New Deal!

    •  sorry, no (none)
      abortion is the number one issue that will determine who bush picks.  it doesn't matter what the majority of americans think.  the fundies are pissed that they haven't gotten enough anti-gay and anti-woman legislation from this president.  they will demand a reliably anti-choice nominee or they will walk from the republican party.  

      "Rick Santorum is Latin for Asshole."

      by tmendoza on Fri Jul 01, 2005 at 09:30:18 AM PDT

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      •  And go where? (none)
        They know there is no room for them in the Democratic party.  Are we going to see some new wingnut party?  Will they give up & become a-political?  I don't think the Dobson crowd has anywhere else to go & they know it.

        Loyalty to the country always. Loyalty to the government when it deserves it. -- Mark Twain

        by GTPinNJ on Fri Jul 01, 2005 at 09:35:32 AM PDT

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        •  Vote (none)
          The alternative is that instead of voting at a very high rate they will default to the average voting rate.

          The republican majority is predicated largely on conservative Christians voting in higher than average concentrations.

        •  wingnut party? (none)
          The Constitution Party fills that role, I think.

          Flag burnings occur on average 8 times a year. Is the time/$ cost of a constitutional amendment really worth anyone's tax dollars - even if they support it?

          by deep6 on Fri Jul 01, 2005 at 10:00:17 AM PDT

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      •  Absolutely (none)
        This administration sold its soul to the theocratic right to retain power.  The fundies' issue is the Court.  They will forgive Bush anything but a failure to put up a reliably anti-choice conservative.

        It's the RULE OF LAW, stupid!

        by Rick Oliver on Fri Jul 01, 2005 at 10:22:41 AM PDT

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      •  What makes the current..... (none)
        ... Christian Right so much more powerful than it was 10 years ago, is their political pragmatism. Yes, they are driven crazy fanatics. The leadership is NOT. They spew the rhetoric, but so far they have settled for 'nibbling' at abortion rights and moving no where federally on gay marriage. The leadership is been very effective at wielding their political clout.

        10 years ago, they would have been outraged that the candidate they backed was stumping for an unpopular issue like SS privatization instead of an issue like banning gay marriage which has greater support among the public. Put simply, these people understand politics. They aren't going to bite the hand that feeds them. They have a vested interest in the status quo. Do they really want to burst the bubble their lemmings are in? Abortion rights are overwhelmingly supported in America. Dobson can't eat if his followers realize this.

    •  Agree (none)
      About the New Deal, which along with church-state and affirmative action may be the biggest casualty of O'Connor leaving.  And I agree that abortion is a good political issue to use in opposing the nominee.  All I indicated was that, substantively, Roe will not be overturned because of O'Connor's replacement.

      Democrats must confront the cultural populism of the wedge issues with genuine economic populism. Thomas Frank.

      by Paleo on Fri Jul 01, 2005 at 09:42:32 AM PDT

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    •  I completely agree. (none)
      This is what the Repubs in office constantly do.  They chat up the abortion issue to play to their base, but when it comes right down to it, the Repubs are terrified that the court will overturn Roe...if that happens, voter motiviation shifts incredibly towards the Dems.  I suspect there are a lot of pro-choice voters out there that don't use this issue as a deciding factor since abortion is already legal.  If it becomes illegal, you will see a vast number of those voters coming back & turning on the Repubs.  They can't afford to let that happen.

      Loyalty to the country always. Loyalty to the government when it deserves it. -- Mark Twain

      by GTPinNJ on Fri Jul 01, 2005 at 09:44:26 AM PDT

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      •  Woe is Roe (none)
        Frankly overturning Roe and turning the issue back to the states and making the American people in each state have a real discussion and make some real decisions and vote about abortion might be the best thing that ever happened to this country.

        The facts are that huge numbers of people, though not a majority, feel that abortion (they would say murder) is legal only because the Courts (they would say judicial activists) have made it so.  This is so distorting our political landscape that I believe it is the number one obstacle to rational governance in this country.  People who are frankly appalled by much of what Bushco does just can't get over Roe, it is their litmus test for voting.  If abortion were legal, not because of judicial activism by politically appointed judges, but because a majority of their fellow state citizens have made it so  - they wouldn't keep casting their congressional and presidential votes based on this one issue and the R's know it.  They are terrified of that happening. That's why they are trying to create the "homosexual agenda" as a back up issue, but it's not nearly as potent and they know it.

        OTOH, if Roe is ever overturned, state's rights becomes a whole lot more important.

        I once thought that preserving Roe was very important.  Now I am so concerned that none of us, and certainly not our children, are going to have any kind of a future if Bush continues to aid and abet multinational corporations in committing global ecocide, that Roe pales.  

        What a measure of how bad things have gotten.

        If you want something other than the obvious to happen, you've got to do something other than the obvious...

        by trillian on Fri Jul 01, 2005 at 10:19:57 AM PDT

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        •  Agree to some extent.... (none)
          But some states, Texas among them, have passed state constitutional amendments banning abortion for just such a circumstance.  The fight wouldn't be able to be fought, because conservative state legislatures have the bans already in place and ready to go.

          Good site for legal breakdowns: Center for Reproductive Rights

          "There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life." Frank Zappa

          by cclough on Fri Jul 01, 2005 at 11:47:45 AM PDT

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          •  Fuck 'em..... (4.00)
            .... I'm all about moral capitalism. On the contrary, I believe you'd be surprised by what Texans really believe if this issue is brought to light. Public discourse is a wonderful anti-septic.

            On moral capitalism...... Kansas and Ohio should ban evolution. Alabama and Missippi should ban abortion. All these 'moral' judgements carry harsh economic consequences. Industries that need young, smart professionals won't be able to attract any in these states. Universities will have a tough time recruiting top faculty. New economy jobs that are vital to balance the effect of outsourcing will be lost. These states will see the economic depression they deserve. They can choose to see the light. Or I say - Fuck'em.

            I'm from Ohio and it pains me to see the creationsim debate there. I'm a Clevelander completely ashamed of the rest my home state. We need a wake up call, not a preservation to the staus quo!

      •  I wish I could believe that (none)
        This is what the Repubs in office constantly do.  They chat up the abortion issue to play to their base, but when it comes right down to it, the Repubs are terrified that the court will overturn Roe...if that happens, voter motiviation shifts incredibly towards the Dems.

        Actually, I honestly believe they don't give a shit. They have a very "Well, I've got mine" mentality on abortion - meaning they figure they can always get an abortion somewhere if they need one, but as far as they're concerned their personal tax cuts outweigh anyone else's right to privacy.

    •  O'Connor (none)
      has NEVER been a fan of the New Deal. I'll see if I can find the link, but I remember reading an article where she is specifically characterized as being against New Deal policies just like her father was, back in the days when she was growing up on a ranch in Arizona.

      The situation once she leaves becomes the possible nomination and confirmation of a justice who's even more against New Deal policies than she is, and depending on the scope of the cases before the court that may not bode well.

      But it's silly to argue over what her greatest significance to the court is (was) assuming another nominee is confirmed before the next SCOTUS session begins.  O'Connor's out.  Done.  Big things a'comin.  We need to move on and determine who Bush wants to see confirmed and then work against his extremist nominees from there.

      Flag burnings occur on average 8 times a year. Is the time/$ cost of a constitutional amendment really worth anyone's tax dollars - even if they support it?

      by deep6 on Fri Jul 01, 2005 at 10:08:55 AM PDT

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