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View Diary: The Comedy of Creationists: How Far Real Science Has Pushed Pseudo-Science (34 comments)

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  •  Here's the $64 question: (6+ / 0-)

    Are they aware that what they are saying is a radical departure from what they have claimed in the past? Are they aware that they are now DIRECTLY contradicting the Bible?

    •  Well, directly contradicting (0+ / 0-)

      a strictly literalist reading of the Bible, anyway.

      •  Correct. Directly contradicting the bible. (0+ / 0-)

        I see the "oh that part was intended as a fuzzy feel good story to give you a vague idea of sort of what happened-ish, rather than an actual factual description" thing as a bit of a dodge.  People call it "metaphorical" but what they're really doing is waiting until millennia after the passages were written, when humanity finally knows the answer, and then fitting that backward into the text to make it look like that matches what the original authors meant.  It's a dodge designed to make it so nobody ever has to utter the uncomfortable words "the Bible is wrong about this".  It's done to prop up its supposed infallibility.  

        If it's allowed to be treated as a normal bunch of non-divine documents written by normal non-divine humans, which is what you have to do to be able to say the honest thing which is "these humans got some things wrong, no biggie", then its value as a moral authority vanishes.  It's not a divine document.  It's stuff our ancient ancestors wrote.  Nothing more nothing less.

        •  Sorry, you're wrong (0+ / 0-)

          in that "this is not to be taken literally" has been a near-universal interpretation of the creation story since millennia before science had anything authoritative to say about the origin of the universe.

          Near-universal in Judaism, that is, which has never advocated a strictly literal no-interpolation-allowed reading of any narrative part of the Bible.

          Your assumption that the "metaphorical" reading is retroactive is understandable, but incorrect.

          •  The problem is that even the widest (0+ / 0-)

            most fuzzy way to interpret it still doesn't align with fact.  The biblical metaphoricalists of whom you speak were not claiming that "god made the world' is a mere metaphor - just that the exact implementation details were.  They were not claiming that god creating man specially and of a different category from the animals was a mere metaphor - just that the exact implementation details were.  It's not just the exact details that are proven wrong - its the entire wide fuzzy claim itself.

            •  The problem is (0+ / 0-)

              that you feel qualified to talk about what historical biblical scholars claimed and didn't claim, when you haven't the first notion what any of them actually said.

              The problem is also that you're not talking about the comment I was responding to anymore, so I'll say good day here.

              •  Hypocrite. (0+ / 0-)

                You can't try to shoot down what I said with an argument claiming you know better than they did what they were thinking and then accuse me of doing the same.

                The bending over backward that people do to try to avoid having to admit that the Bible has made false claims and that's all there is to it is really annoying.  It's only because it's a religious book that people give it such a wide berth of undeserved respect.  The ancient greeks helped advance human civilization a lot and came up with some excellent new ideas, but we don't feel the need to therefore try to defend every claim they made and every thing they did.  They also had a lot of utterly bonkers ideas and some morally reprehensible ideas but there's no shame in that because so did most of humanity.  Judged versus their contemporaries they come out looking pretty good.  But doing that requires that we treat their history in a secular way.  They weren't divine they were just people.  Just like the authors of the biblical scriptures.  They got some stuff right and some stuff wrong.

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