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View Diary: Government oversight board issues report saying NSA bulk phone calls program is illegal (272 comments)

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  •  And by "secrecy" you mean...... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ord avg guy, Tortmaster, jdsnebraska

    Twelve jurors, a judge, press access and an appeals process?

    Finally.  A defect in the justice system that has united white college educated leftists in a single voice of protest.

    Christie: "I'm going to find the real bullies!"

    by Inland on Thu Jan 23, 2014 at 09:57:18 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  I'm going to walk away from you now. (6+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      allenjo, Sandino, DeadHead, triv33, ozsea1, JesseCW

      You're not interested in justice or rule of law.

      And if we weren't in a conversation with each other, I would h/r your race-baiting claptrap.

      all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

      by 4kedtongue on Thu Jan 23, 2014 at 10:32:27 AM PST

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    •  and since they'll be discussing (8+ / 0-)

      matters of "national security," don't you expect a good bit of the hearing would be held behind closed doors due to the classified information under discussion? (Just because it's been leaked publicly doesn't unclassify it, you know.)

      Finally.  A defect in the justice system that has united white college educated leftists in a single voice of protest.
      Clear sign that you're gradually losing the argument, thread by thread, drip by drip. If any of your other horseshit was getting traction, you wouldn't need to go there.

      You WANT me on that server! You NEED me on that server!

      by nota bene on Thu Jan 23, 2014 at 12:16:32 PM PST

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      •  In poker... (7+ / 0-)

        ...that's called a Tell.  He wasn't waiting to go there -- he's been dying to go there.  It's the primary reason he enters these diaries.

        Glad he's on record...as one of the very few who even acknowledge his presence by engaging him in these types of diaries, it's all the easier to dismiss him out of hand from here forward.

        all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

        by 4kedtongue on Thu Jan 23, 2014 at 12:23:32 PM PST

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      •  No, and what's more, the jury would still hear it. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tortmaster

        How much of Manning's hearing was classified?  Not much.

        But thanks for all the deep concern over the rights of the accused white guy with access to legal teams and supposedly the ability to obtain justice as long as he's given a pardon before we even know what he did.  It's a huge vote for justice.

        Christie: "I'm going to find the real bullies!"

        by Inland on Thu Jan 23, 2014 at 12:45:06 PM PST

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        •  why do you keep bringing race into this? (7+ / 0-)

          also, re: secrecy in US v. Manning, see here.

          You WANT me on that server! You NEED me on that server!

          by nota bene on Thu Jan 23, 2014 at 01:06:51 PM PST

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          •  Because the sudden interest in criminal procedure (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Tortmaster

            when the college educated white guy with resources appears is pretty transparent.

            Why else would you use "secret evidence" as a point of objection?  You've got a judge.  An unbiased jury.  A lawyer to be provided, free if he can't afford one from the government.  But suddenly no, our justice system is just too unfair for us to actually judge the man because some evidence might not be seen by you personally.  Might.

            Man.  If there's one fugitive whose claim of "can't get a fair trial" has any credence, it's NOT Snowden.

            Christie: "I'm going to find the real bullies!"

            by Inland on Thu Jan 23, 2014 at 01:28:59 PM PST

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            •  what's "pretty transparent" here (7+ / 0-)

              is that you've entirely run out of valid arguments, and now you're going to turn to inflammatory, ad-hom bullshit about race and class.

              You WANT me on that server! You NEED me on that server!

              by nota bene on Thu Jan 23, 2014 at 01:39:27 PM PST

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            •  Your argument that the same people would not (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              TheMomCat, 4kedtongue, stevemb

              support Snowden were he of some arbitrary racial classification other than white is both asinine and intentionally dishonest.

              You're talking to the Free Mummia and Free Leonard Pelletier folks right now.

              And you know it.

              "I read New republic and Nation/I've learned to take every view.." P. Ochs

              by JesseCW on Fri Jan 24, 2014 at 12:26:53 AM PST

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              •  Nobody claims the system is biased against white (0+ / 0-)

                educated/white collar/ educated/ people with money for lawyers until they need to "explain" why Snowden won't face trial.  The lie is that "he won't get justice" instead of the obviously true of "he'd rather not face justice".  

                And we all know it.  

                Christie: "I'm going to find the real bullies!"

                by Inland on Fri Jan 24, 2014 at 07:08:59 AM PST

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              •  JesseCW... (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                JesseCW, TheMomCat, stevemb

                ...don't you know that the only reason Snowden has become a cause célèbre with white college educated leftists is because the defects in the criminal justice system have gone unchallenged by white college educated leftists when the defendants did not match their racial, socio-economic background?

                No white college educated leftists have ever railed against the racist application of drug sentencing.
                No white college educated leftist ever challenged the power of the police when employing 'Stop and Frisk' or racial profiling.
                No white college educated has ever questioned the validity of the jury system as it acquits whites and convicts people of color unjustly.
                No white college educated leftist ever lifted a finger, let alone raised their voices, against the racist application of the Death Penalty.

                It's a filthy, despicable lie, but it is by no means a 'Hail Mary' argument of last resort.  It's simply the logical advancement of an argument which has its roots in the idea that violations of the 1st and 4th amendments in the form of collection, storage, and warrantless search of telephone meta-data of every single American citizen by the government amounts to little more than a White Privilege over-reaction.  yawn.

                And there is nothing you can say to Inland, who seems hell-bent on DEFENDING the defects of the justice system in this particualr case, which will change his mind, so why bother trying?

                all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

                by 4kedtongue on Fri Jan 24, 2014 at 09:24:22 AM PST

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        •  Wait, we're talking about Bush? (6+ / 0-)

          I mean, you obviously care about white men escaping justice, so you must be talking about the refusal to prosecute for torture. Because you hate hypocrisy and are all for the rule of law.

          If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

          by AoT on Thu Jan 23, 2014 at 01:13:15 PM PST

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          •  Yeah, I've heard that too. (0+ / 0-)

            "You can't prosecute My Icon unless Bush and all the banksters and XYZ are prosecuted first".  As if the right wing gets a few get out of jail frees, and then you pick yours.  Any of you Junior Blackstones interested in rule of law picked out the law that Bush would be prosecuted under?  Or is that not important.

            Christie: "I'm going to find the real bullies!"

            by Inland on Thu Jan 23, 2014 at 01:31:13 PM PST

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            •  You're making things up (6+ / 0-)

              I never said Snowden shouldn't be prosecuted unless Bush is, I said you're a hypocrite and don't actually care about the rule of law. And yes, prosecuting banks for fraud would be great too. I sure see you fighting for that.

              And he'd be prosecuted for torture. That's still illegal in the US and it's illegal to order torture, which Bush did.

              Again, not that you care about the law. You care about punishing the little people. God forbid one of them get off for something. Torture thousands and it's a different story altogether.

              If knowledge is power and power corrupts, does that mean that knowledge corrupts?

              by AoT on Thu Jan 23, 2014 at 02:19:48 PM PST

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            •  You seriously don't believe Bush commited (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              TheMomCat, stevemb

              crimes when he ordered torture?

              "I read New republic and Nation/I've learned to take every view.." P. Ochs

              by JesseCW on Fri Jan 24, 2014 at 12:27:51 AM PST

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              •  And the statute is.... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                jdsnebraska

                Crimes aren't in the air.  They are defined by statutes.  Got one?  No.  Turns out, the law is pretty short on crimes a president can commit as president.

                It's really hard to discuss the law with people whose analysis starts at "I hate this guy, let's get him" and ends with "I like this guy, he should get away with it".  

                Christie: "I'm going to find the real bullies!"

                by Inland on Fri Jan 24, 2014 at 06:53:29 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

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