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View Diary: Breaking: Italian fascist spy network possibly linked to US intelligence (18 comments)

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  •  Fascinating. (none)
    Bizarre and fascinating. And whats the deal with Freemasons in Italy? I know they are a favorite object of conspiracy theorists everywhere, but they seem to be taken more seriously in Italy. My grandpa was a Freemason and if he was part of any conspiracy to dominate the world he kept it well hidden behind the facade of a small-towan junkyard operator.

    "Tell no lies. Claim no easy victories." -- Amilcar Cabral

    by Christopher Day on Fri Jul 01, 2005 at 11:12:01 AM PDT

    •  P2 (4.00)
      The Italian freemasons played a major role in the Risorgimento. The P-2 Lodge is a perversion, wrapped up in Cold War anti-Communism but with connections to wingers in the US.

      Roberto Calvi was a member of P-2. It was like a star chamber, thought to have links to the generals of Argentina's dirty war and terrorist bombings around.  May have initially started out under Operation Stay-Behind.

      •  What is Operation Stay-Behind? (none)

        Stop the war! Draft Bush voters!

        by NoAlternative on Fri Jul 01, 2005 at 12:39:37 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Aren't they no longer... (none)
        recognized by other freemasons? It's a vague memory, and I don't know the ins & outs of freemasonry organization, but if we're even remotely referencing t international freemasonic conspiracy, it's relevant...

        and my maternal grandfather, the trucker/grape farmer, was also a Freemason. So between him and the jewish (paternal) side of my family, why the hell don't I get any benefits from this secretly-running-the-world business? </snark>

        •  You try to minimize (none)
          I know your are trying to suggest the (bogus) protocols, but in fact the P2 Masonic Lodge does exist to kill or to thwart commies. They have hired themselves out to go after "Islamists." In the sense of world takeover, yes they believe in an extreme liberal worldwide radical "democracy" that you or I wouldn't recognize as such.
          •  Sorry, long weekend... (none)
            so I know no one else will read this, but I wasn't trying to minimize the actions of that one group -- just questioning their connection to all the other freemasons. It matters -- it's a very different situation if the masonic temple in my town has active links to P2 than if it (and/or the umbrella organization to which it belongs) has disavowed P2.  You can make a comparison to just about any other group you can come up with -- let's say that there is a group, calling itself (say) christian (or muslim), which engages in terrorist acts. And then let's imagine that many (most, all?) others who call themselves christian (muslim) publicly disavow the first group, claiming that their actions violate the fundamental principles of christianity (islam). Are we justified in calling the terrorist group christian (muslim), without caveats, when many (most, all) others who call themselves christian (muslim) do not consider them such?
            (I used christian/muslim because I'm gussing that one or the other will ping your emotional radar -- the sub-rational is the level at which I'm aiming. No specific groups in mind.)

            And the indirect reference to the protocols comes out of a discussion with my (unnacountably) wingnut brother a while ago -- I swear, if he wasn't a jew, he'd be  an anti-semite. He just picks up on the "blame a random scapegoat" conspiracies -- I think because otherwise he'd have to think too hard, and he's never been  fond of that.  (Or research. He went on about the freemasons, but never mentioned P2 -- and this was just after I'd read the DaVinci Code, when I'd done a bit of research about freemasony -- most of which has vanished from my brain. Wingnut bro didn't even have the GOOD part of the conspiracy theory down! But I've always known he's an idiot. Sorry for the rant.)

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