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View Diary: Sexual Objectification Is Not Your Sexuality (54 comments)

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  •  Again (0+ / 0-)

    because the diary initially lumped in a rapist attitude with ones that are legitimately held by the people I just described.  Also, because I do disagree with you that consent requires some degree of mental/emotional interaction beyond "hey, let's fuck."

    •  No, the diary did not. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sethtriggs

      It expressly, clearly, strongly did not. That is entirely your projection onto the diary, and I'm starting to wonder why you're clinging to it so tenaciously.

      That you're also clearly, distinctly, and overtly misrepresenting what I said only furthers that wonder. Any seeking of consent requires a non-physical interation, full stop, which means you cannot have consensual sex which is purely physical as you wrongly claimed.

      "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

      by raptavio on Sat Jan 25, 2014 at 08:49:40 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Again (0+ / 0-)
        It's taking people and turning them into display stands to showcase a product. It’s about showing only one body part instead of the whole person. It’s photoshopping models until they are basically nothing more than a cheap cartoon to sell crap you don't need anyway. It's the attitude that people don't have the right to say "No" to sexual contact. It's the idea that some people are just pieces of meat to be picked up, humped, and then dumped.  It’s summing up a person in terms of body parts (e.g. “I don’t care if she won the Nobel Peace Prize, I just want to see her tits.” Or “Check out the ass on that hunk of man-meat! Whoot!”)
        You have six sentences there which express perfectly legitimate attitudes.  You have one sentence there that describes the view of a rapist, or a sexual batterer at the very least.  Show me I'm wrong.

        Unless you're defining physical interaction in a way differently than I am, in which "physical" is just another way of saying "carnal," then I have no idea why you assert some other interaction is necessary to request and give consent.  Can you be more specific?

        •  "You have six sentences there which express (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sethtriggs

          perfectly legitimate attitides."

          Aaaand there we are at the center of the shrubbery maze -- and the takeaway is that you don't get it. You don't understand what is meant by rape culture. You don't understand objectification. And you don't understand existing in a culture that bombards us with these attitudes in ways we don't even see much of the time and what that does to us.

          So that's that, then.

          "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

          by raptavio on Sat Jan 25, 2014 at 09:07:02 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Then we clearly aren't in agreement (0+ / 0-)

            Because the only way those six attitudes contribute to the rape culture is through their condemnation by scolds on both sides.  

            •  Nope. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              sethtriggs

              You're completely wrong. Because you don't get it; you lack some of the relevant information and perspectives to get it.

              I ask you to take some time to read and learn about rape culture, male privilege, and their interactions with sexuality, and perhaps solicit the diarist and some others to provide you with some resources, but I have my doubts you'll agree to do so. However, who knows. Maybe in the days to come, you might give it a whirl, and do so.

              Either way, I think we've exhausted the utility of this exchange.

              "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

              by raptavio on Sat Jan 25, 2014 at 12:25:28 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I don't know if I'm entirely right (0+ / 0-)

                but I do know that there's no point in continuing a discussion with someone who prefers to pack up their marbles and go home rather than explain themselves.  And generally, if you want someone to do homework, it helps if you at least outline what precisely you want them to research.

                •  There's nothing more to explain. (0+ / 0-)

                  You've rejected all explanations provided and cling to your misconceptions. I recognize futility when I see it, and I've given you a brief outline of topics to learn about (rape culture, male privilege, their interactions with sexuality), which of course you don't recognize. Futility.

                  Have a nice evening.

                  "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

                  by raptavio on Sat Jan 25, 2014 at 05:23:44 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

    •  From what I gather in the diary... (0+ / 0-)

      That sort of assault dynamic is yet another consequence of objectification. In a number of cultures, it presents itself as "This is [whatever type of person that has to submit to sex no matter their feelings], I need to get off, I'm going to grab this person and they're going to like it or lump it." It is actually a very common thing.

      That's actually also where sex and adult entertainment workers get objectified and from time to time abused. People just doing their job but sustaining unwanted gropes and harassment because they have 'cute bodies' and "hey I get to see your parts as a course of your job. Well you should submit to being fondled by me too."

      •  Adult entertainers and sex workers (0+ / 0-)

        are certainly more vulnerable to harassment and abuse than their peers.  My point is that there is a difference between "I want to see you naked" and "I want to see you naked and if you don't accede then I'm going to heap such and such abuse upon you."

        Of those seven depictions of objectification the diarist chose to make her point, only one belongs in that second category.

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