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View Diary: The Gun Violence That Never Stops (50 comments)

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  •  The gun fanciers will automatically shout... (9+ / 0-)

    "We need to do more about mental health in this country!"

    What they assiduously ignore is just how insanely easy it is to get a gun in this country.

    Our guns-per-capita rate outstrips every country in the world, by a large margin.

    Yet the gun crowd -- including our resident RKBA faction, almost to a person -- defends the easy availability of guns in this country.

    The truth is, any idiot can get a gun. Easily. It's an insane policy. But the NRA, the gun makers and folks like our local RKBA crowd refuse to work toward a sane policy. They niggle around the edges, but don't commit to any real changes that would it make it much more difficult to get a gun, particularly, a handgun, which is the type of weapon does that the bulk of the killing in the U.S. In fact, even our supposed "Liberal Gun Club" members here actively push and support gun toting legislation, whether concealed or open carry.

    As I note about the so-called "Liberal Gun Club, they're motto should be:

                                 More liberal the NRA.
                              On everything except guns.

    "Bob Johnson doesn't have special privileges, because really, why would I entrust that guy with ANYTHING?" - kos, November 9, 2013

    by Bob Johnson on Mon Jan 27, 2014 at 08:34:39 AM PST

    •  I think a lot of gun owners (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      fidlerten

      including a lot of NRA members (and myself) are in favor of universal background check IF it is easy, inexpensive, and leaves no permanent record. A system where FFL holders are required to perform, on demand, for a nominal fee (say $10) a check anytime it's requested. Then if I want to sell a firearm to somebody I just go to the local pawn shop and ask them to perform the check. If I'm selling something at a gun show I just walk over to a dealer table and ask them to do the check.

      •  Like I said... (5+ / 0-)

        You want to niggle around the edges.

        "Bob Johnson doesn't have special privileges, because really, why would I entrust that guy with ANYTHING?" - kos, November 9, 2013

        by Bob Johnson on Mon Jan 27, 2014 at 09:22:23 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  No (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          fidlerten

          I want to close the misnamed "gun show loophole" and require a background check on all firearms transfers in a way that doesn't create a registry because any type of registry is a complete non-starter. I think those types of transfers contribute very little to crime as most crime guns are stolen and then sold on the black market, but it may have some small positive effect.

          •  Guns are too easy to get. Particularly handguns. (6+ / 0-)

            Your ideas don't really change that.

            "Bob Johnson doesn't have special privileges, because really, why would I entrust that guy with ANYTHING?" - kos, November 9, 2013

            by Bob Johnson on Mon Jan 27, 2014 at 09:40:45 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Nor do I want to change that (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              fidlerten

              It's not my place to make that decision for someone else. Just as it's not my place to make any other decisions for them that involve their fundamental rights. I would want them to be educated and grasp the inherent dangers involved just as I would if they owned a pool, used a  chainsaw, did rock climbing or engaged in any other activity with inherent risks. However, when it comes right down to it, it's their right.

              I would also disagree with "easy to get". Easy to get legally IF you are 21, have never been convicted of a serious crime or a crime of domestic violence, never been forcibly committed for mental health care, etc...

              •  Pools, chainsaws, rock climbing and other things (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Glen The Plumber, fidlerten

                that carry risk, mostly carry the risk for oneself.

                Attitudes like yours are making the entire country unsafe for just about everyone.

                I blog about my daughter with autism at her website

                by coquiero on Mon Jan 27, 2014 at 11:11:28 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  They also, (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  fidlerten

                  Particularly pools, carry risks for others. Also, since over 50% of the firearms death numbers you guys love to throw around are suicide I'd suggest they are more similar than you think.

                  We could make the world a much safer and more crime free place by doing away with this whole silly nonsense of needing a warrant to search your home, needing probable cause to arrest someone, etc... as well. I don't want to get rid of those rights in the interest of safety either. Sometimes "safety" isn't worth the price.

                  •  I wish I could conceal carry a pool. (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    coquiero, fidlerten

                    Then I could drown the bad guys, should one threaten me or a family member.

                    "Bob Johnson doesn't have special privileges, because really, why would I entrust that guy with ANYTHING?" - kos, November 9, 2013

                    by Bob Johnson on Mon Jan 27, 2014 at 11:24:20 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  Not like guns (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    fidlerten

                    You can make false equivalencies all you like, but this country has a gun policy that is too lax, it has too many guns in circulation, and it has a gun culture that needs serious attention.

                    "Safety isn't worth the price".  I would like to encourage you to diary some of your fine ideas on guns and safety.  Truly, they should be fleshed out and offered up for discussion.  

                    I blog about my daughter with autism at her website

                    by coquiero on Mon Jan 27, 2014 at 11:25:01 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  You are entitled to that opinion (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      fidlerten

                      You are free to scream it from the rooftops, support candidates that agree with it, and do everything you can to get those policies enacted. I and 90 or 100 million other firearms owners who are highly engaged on this topic, vote based on a politicians stance on this topic (all other things being equal), and contribute heavily to groups that lobby to protect our rights will feel free to do the same. We also happen to have the constitution on our side.

                      •  I am entitled to my opinion, and my political (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        fidlerten

                        action.

                        Thanks so much for your generosity.  I can't tell you how kind it is for you to allow that.

                        I blog about my daughter with autism at her website

                        by coquiero on Mon Jan 27, 2014 at 11:54:52 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  and by extension (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          fidlerten

                          I am entitled to mine. So far, we see who is winning.

                          •  Winning what? (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            fidlerten

                            Is this a game to you?  What a fucked up attitude to have about firearm safety.

                            It explains a lot.

                            I will continue with my political action because I care about the rights and safety of all Americans, not so I can say "I'm winning" on a political blog.

                            Lame.

                            I blog about my daughter with autism at her website

                            by coquiero on Mon Jan 27, 2014 at 02:02:47 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Not winning on this blog (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            fidlerten

                            or in this discussion. I couldn't care less about that. Winning in the states and in the courts where your efforts to trample our constitutional rights out of your fear and hysteria have for the most part failed.

                            You had a moment, where a statistically rare set of tragedies seemed to happen right on top of each other with Aurora and Sandy Hook. You guys did your level best to exploit them to whip the public up into some kind of fervor (see privacy post 9/11 for a very analogous situation) and the best you could do was some tightening of laws in states already hostile to firearms ownership.

                          •  Please proceed, farmernate (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            fidlerten

                            But like I do fighting for equality or women's bodily autonomy, or fair wages for workers, I'll keep working for what I believe in, despite what NRA propaganda or schoolboy taunts of "We're winning!" you might drop so delightfully into conversation here.

                            Just remember, please, for the sake of those you love, that fire extinguishers are not the same as guns.

                            I blog about my daughter with autism at her website

                            by coquiero on Mon Jan 27, 2014 at 03:15:06 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

              •  That's my point. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                fidlerten

                This country is flooded with guns. It's insane how many guns are floating around in this country. No other country in the world is as heavily armed as the U.S. And folks like you want it that way. It makes no logical sense to attempt to live in a civilized society where not only are guns readily and easily available, but folks like you want the right to carry them with you wherever you go.

                Guns, guns, guns. They're seem more important too some folks than life, itself.

                "Bob Johnson doesn't have special privileges, because really, why would I entrust that guy with ANYTHING?" - kos, November 9, 2013

                by Bob Johnson on Mon Jan 27, 2014 at 11:22:48 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Not "more" important (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  fidlerten

                  but "as important" as any of my other fundamental human rights like speech, religion, secure in my home and person, etc... I'd fight for those as well and yes if I had to give my life to try and protect them I would because without them life is not worth living.

                  •  "Fundamental human right" (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    fidlerten

                    So being able to walk around with a handgun is equivalent ot having food, shelter, clean air and clean water?

                    That says it all. There's no dealing rationally with someone who believes that.

                    "Bob Johnson doesn't have special privileges, because really, why would I entrust that guy with ANYTHING?" - kos, November 9, 2013

                    by Bob Johnson on Mon Jan 27, 2014 at 11:28:57 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  My right to self defense (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      fidlerten

                      and the means to carry it out are indeed equivalent to food and shelter.

                      •  Steaming load. (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        coquiero, fidlerten

                        If you want self-defense, get a chainsaw or a pool, as you note, above.

                        "Bob Johnson doesn't have special privileges, because really, why would I entrust that guy with ANYTHING?" - kos, November 9, 2013

                        by Bob Johnson on Mon Jan 27, 2014 at 11:39:36 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  By the way, are you under constant threat? (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        coquiero, fidlerten

                        That's always been a mystery to me... How many gun toters talk about how dangerous big cities are so they choose to live out in the country where it's safe, yet feel compelled to pack heat because of, you know, bad guys.

                        Weird, fearful mindset.

                        "Bob Johnson doesn't have special privileges, because really, why would I entrust that guy with ANYTHING?" - kos, November 9, 2013

                        by Bob Johnson on Mon Jan 27, 2014 at 11:41:18 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Generally I don't carry (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          fidlerten

                          I've had a carry permit for about 1 year. I held off getting it until my state passed a shield law making the names of permit holders not public record so they cannot be released in FOIA requests.

                          I have carried exactly 3 times, once this past weekend as I noted in the comment below. I'll never have to have an abortion, but I support abortion rights. I don't own a newspaper or a website, but I support the free press.

                          •  Got that. You've posted your liberal bona fides. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            fidlerten

                            What do you expect you might have to do with a gun when you're carrying it?

                            "Bob Johnson doesn't have special privileges, because really, why would I entrust that guy with ANYTHING?" - kos, November 9, 2013

                            by Bob Johnson on Mon Jan 27, 2014 at 12:11:07 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Hopefully nothing (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            fidlerten

                            I hope I never have to use the fire extinguisher in my garage either. However, if the time comes, and I was forced to, I would use it to protect my life and/or my property.

                          •  Just make sure you don't kill your neighbors (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            fidlerten

                            accidentally with your fire extinguisher while you're protecting your property from fire.

                            Or your kid when he or she is trying to sneak in late at night and you think it's a burglar.  

                            I blog about my daughter with autism at her website

                            by coquiero on Mon Jan 27, 2014 at 02:18:07 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Actually (0+ / 0-)

                            My son was sneaking in late at night about a year ago and I did get a handgun from the bedside table. However, since my standard way to react to that situation was to yell "Who is that" and he responded there was no issue. Maybe I just grew up being better trained than most people (though I don't know), but I don't shoot at anything unless I am 100% sure what I'm shooting at. If he had not responded with "It's me dad". The next step would have been to shout "I have a gun, get out of here now" before leaving the room, with a flashlight, to see what was going on. I would not have fired the weapon in any event without seeing my target well enough to know it was not my son.

              •  By the way, I'm enjoying the irony of your comment (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                coquiero, fidlerten

                Your first comment in this diary was:

                The amount of straw men in this diary

                May well set a new record. Well done.

                And here you are comparing guns to swimming pools and chainsaws.

                "Bob Johnson doesn't have special privileges, because really, why would I entrust that guy with ANYTHING?" - kos, November 9, 2013

                by Bob Johnson on Mon Jan 27, 2014 at 11:27:20 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Which is in no way related to (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  fidlerten

                  Claiming the NRA or anybody else had endorsed people legally carrying a gun into a bar and getting drunk. See, THAT is a "straw man". When you rebut an argument that has never been made. You're welcome for the English lesson.

                  •  Right, but guns are like pools or chainsaws. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    fidlerten

                    Or something.

                    "Bob Johnson doesn't have special privileges, because really, why would I entrust that guy with ANYTHING?" - kos, November 9, 2013

                    by Bob Johnson on Mon Jan 27, 2014 at 11:38:37 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

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