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View Diary: Obama used NSA spying to kill Copenhagen Climate Change talks (263 comments)

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  •  Really? (14+ / 0-)
    they believe advance American knowledge of the Danish proposal may help explain US positioning in the months leading up to the summit.
    Maybe that "advance American knowledge" was a result of US participation in drafting the thing.
    The so-called Danish text, a secret draft agreement worked on by a group of individuals known as "the circle of commitment" – but understood to include the UK, US and Denmark – has only been shown to a handful of countries since it was finalised this week.
    http://www.theguardian.com/...

    “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

    by Catte Nappe on Fri Jan 31, 2014 at 04:14:18 PM PST

    •  That's speculation by the Guardian at the time (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Horace Boothroyd III, lysias, Kombema

      The Information's reporting makes it clear that the US was not involved in the statement, and that the Danes explicitly wanted to keep the proposal secret from the Americans to stop them from doing exactly what they did.

      •  Speculation vs speculation (11+ / 0-)

        S/he said vs s/he said. Assumptions. Mind reading. Connecting of dots both real and imagined.

        we know that at some point during the weeks leading up to the summit, the Prime Minister's Office, the Ministry of Climate and Energy, and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs agreed to hand over the draft to the United States, China and other key countries.
        Several sources from the COP15 Secretariat are of the opinion that Permanent Under-Secretary of State Bo Lidegaard had already given the draft to the Americans in spite of the decision not to disclose it.
        None of the Danish delegates to whom Information has spoken wished to add to speculations
        But the Information article does end with an indisputable truth:
        But in the words of a central official:

        »Obviously, if you know the strategies of the other countries, their thoughts on the negotiations and their bottom line in terms of how far they will go, you have a huge advantage.«

        So countries (and tribes and clans and interest groups from all human time) have done the best they can to know the strategies of the others in negotiating.

        “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

        by Catte Nappe on Fri Jan 31, 2014 at 05:04:38 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The NSA document specifically references the (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lysias, Kombema

          Danish proposal, so, no, it's not speculation. We know how the United States got it's hands on the draft.

          And the Danish proposal is just one specific case we know about; the NSA probably gleaned a lot more information that helped the Obama admin scuttle the talks.

          This:

          So countries (and tribes and clans and interest groups from all human time) have done the best they can to know the strategies of the others in negotiating.
          is disgusting apologetics. The United States should not be spying to help corporate interest, full stop. If you disagree with that, you're on the wrong side of history, and not a progressive.
          •  LOL - "disgusting apologetics" (12+ / 0-)
            So countries (and tribes and clans and interest groups from all human time) have done the best they can to know the strategies of the others in negotiating.
            i

            If you take exception to that fact you aren't just on the wrong side of history - you aren't even aware of history. You are ignorant of the most basic elements of individual and group human endeavor. You are oblivious to how the world works, and has always worked through recorded history. As a political activist pursuing progressive causes you are as much use as a trap door on a life boat.

            “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

            by Catte Nappe on Fri Jan 31, 2014 at 05:31:31 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

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